Oil Starvation
 

Ok, I've been going to the track regularly all year and have accumulated 18 track days thus far and plan to reach around 24 by years end.

I keep hearing peripheral comments about concerns regarding oil starvation. Of course, this sounds like something I should be concerned about.

Your thoughts? Experience? Advice? Recommendations?

If you run ...
 

... with "R" compound tires and you're fast around the track, you need to be concerned.
On the long, fast sweepers, the car generates enough lateral G-forces to force the oil to the "outside" of the pan, leaving the pumps completely dry during the turn, until the oil comes back.
Once or twice is not a big deal, but repeating this over and over on a track is just waiting for the inevitable.
Generally piston rod #6 will be the one to go from overheating and lack of lubrication. When it goes, kiss the engine goodbye.
You can solve this by installing an Accusump system.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

I'll be driving on my last set of low treadwear street tires (140 UTQG) to finish 2011 but plan to go to r-comps in early 2012 or as soon as this last set of street tires are done.

Have you done any oiling mods? Any clouds of oil smoke? What tracks do you run? I want to try Homestead in Miami this fall, but thanks to the interwebs, I'm afraid that my engine will blow at the first left. Homestead has 2 fairly short high speed lefts, turns 1 and 10, other than that, its flat without long turns, so I may chance it.

I've been looking for any answers on this and found this on Planet 9 there are actually several there one has the service replacement procedure. First fix. Deep sump with a baffle second fix.

Oil Separator Modification - Pics - AOS Motorsport VOS -

I've haven't done any oiling mods, still straight stock. No clouds of smoke.

This year I've run at Willow Springs Big Track, Willow Springs Streets, Pomona Road Course, AutoClub Speedway (Fontana), and Laguna Seca. I've run four days at AutoClub Speedway which is the NASCAR/IndyCar track where we run the front straightway and the big banking in Turns 1 and 2 which is a high speed (~125mph), long duration, high-g turn.

So far, no enigine or oil problems whatsoever. Engine has 96000 miles and still runs like its brand new (and original IMS).

i'm accusumped. it can be done for less than $500.

Insite did you relocate your oil filter in order to use a regular size....what does your system look like and where did you get it?

my car is primarily track w/ some weekend duty, so i went with the baby filter. i'll take a picture of the system tonight. it mounts in the trunk & uses a manual valve. basically the same thing LN sells (2 liter). i bought most of the parts from race-mart. i saved all the part numbers w/ prices.

If the accusump is too much for you, you can always add an X51 oil pan which has baffles in it to keep the oil from accumulating away from the oil pickup during high g turns. I blew my first engine due to oil starvation (prior to adding an X51 oil pan) while running in the intermediate group with R comp tires. Since that fateful day I have now installed the X51, I am now in the most advanced group. I say this not to brag but to say that my driving has improved dramatically since I blew my engine which in turn means that my g forces in the turns has also increased. No problems since installing the X51. The X51 is not a cure all but it should provide you with a little extra piece of mind.

I am quite sure the standard oil pan has baffles. How are the X-51 baffles superior? I would think a deep sump would help more.

You are quite wrong about the standard oil pan having baffles. Standard oil pan is relatively flat with no baffles. Do a Google search and you can find multiple pictures and threads showing the difference. That being said, an accusump is an ever safer alternative to the X51 but a larger commitment financially, and functionally. The accusump sits in the rear trunk, which effect its use as daily driver if you use it for storage. Also it will hurt the resale value of the car as no one will want a car with an accusump unless the purpose of the car is to be used as a dedicated track car, which most potential buyers of a Boxster will not be. I am just saying that I drive my car hard on the track and I have been fine with just the X51 oil pan.

Really well you learn some thing everyday. Maybe it's deep sump kits I see and the baffles are part of it. I do recall trimming and such of existing baffle parts

I am slightly off, there are baffles in the 986 oil pan, I was looking at a pic of just the replacement oil pan which doesn't show the baffles in the pic, but the X51 oil pan is an improved version over the original and from what I have read the spec boxster racers add both the X51 and the accusump. I have heard mixed feelings on if the deep sump kits are effective but if you do go with a deep sump kit I would go with LN's version.

This is a reply from Suncoast Porsche
Deep Sump Oil Pan Spacer, when is it required? - 6speedonline.com Forums

[IMG]http://www.****************************************************.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/x51oilpan.jpg[/IMG]

See those little rubber flaps hanging down? That's what makes the X51 oil pan unique, the flaps open & close during significant oil shifts. The force of the shifting oil closes the flap, and helps to keep oil in the center chamber for an extended amount of time. Since these flaps are not installed on most models, oil can rush out of the center chamber under extreme conditions and bam.......the oil pick-up tube has no oil. This piece has been very effective, and a great alternative to replacing an entire engine. Driving these cars to the extremes does have it's risks, but this should help to reduce that risk.

The X51 pan can be modified to fit most late model cars, there is an edge on the vertical bracket which has to be cut to clear the inner components (I have a templete with dimensions). A mechanic should be able to make the modifications with a grinder. It can be fitted on any Boxster, Cayman, or 1999+ Carrera (not required for Turbo, GT2, or GT3 models).

i think pedro hit the reason for oiling mods. for the 986 there are three major options:

deep sump - LN does a 1/2 quart, Mantis does a bigger one. the idea is that with more oil in the sump you need longer, more aggressive cornering to starve the oil pickup tube. the bigger the sump, the less clearance you get. some come with pickup tube extensions, some do not. requires modifying the existing windage tray windows (the flap things that hold the oil in close to the oil pickup tube). the oem windage tray has cheap plastic flaps held on by cheap plastic tabs and can break.

x-51 windage tray - designed for the 997, this tray has more robust flaps and is more 'oil tight'; that is, it will hold more oil near the pickup tube for a longer period of time. this unit is for an m97 and requires modification to fit an m96; requires major modification to work with a deep sump. don at ebs racing is now making an x-51 style windage tray specifically for the m96.

accusump - pressurised oil in a tube. when it senses oil pressure drop it adds more oil. research at canton on le engineering.

personally, i think that the ebs x-51 is for me.

ps, if you are going to r-comps you might want to think about power steering cooling also ...

Thanks for the pictures....I think we are looking what is termed baffles. I always thought the windage tray to be the flat "tray" that covers the deep sump area and shields it from air currents that could blow oil away from the pick up. The stock pan has no windage tray...as far as my understanding goes

I am actually wondering if my 3.2 already has the desirable 996 oil return swirl pots so I don't have to go out and buy them. I had thought that I would have to cut holes in the windage tray for them

This is the baffle in the 03 Boxster 2.7

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1319852690

I'm in the process of installing the LNEngineering pan extension.

Yes, the three choices are:
-Deep sump
-X-51 baffled pan
-Accusump

I chose the X-51 pan for my car. Several of my Boxster/996 buddies have done the deep sump or Accusump to good effect.

We have one track in SoCal that is a known M96 killer (Fontana Roval). Turns 1 & 2 are banked decreasing radius left for a very long time at 130 mph+ leading to a heavy braking zone and 90deg left. I know at least 4 cars that killed their motors with stock oiling and comp tires there. So far I have run that track 6 days with the X-51 pan and no oiling issues. Fingers crossed.

Deep sump spacer by itself is quite ineffective IMO.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...es-gasket1.jpg

See the difference:
Rennlist Discussion Forums - View Single Post - question about x51 oil pan and baffles

The keys to LN Engineerings design are they raise the windage tray (Baffle) allowing more oil capasity at the sump pick up. Then they lower the sump pick up to take advantage of that extra Supply.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1319900226

I put in the Mantis deep sump. My 3.2 already has the 996 swirl pots. The windage tray ( horizontal!) had to be cut out to get them through the tray. This one is the new version; all one piece. It gives an extra 1.5 L. Ground clearance is excellent. Hopefully this will resolve oiling issues until I run R comps

Worthless.. and so is deep sump.

X51 pan (Porsche's fix) and/or Accusump.

Don't believe me? Track me down at PCA club races nationwide and I'll show you data :)

Topless is correct :) (he has a lot of track time on His Boxster) ANY track with banking will cause the oil pressure to drop a min. of 30lbs. IT DOES NOT lose pressure down to ZERO (data logging)

Funny part? I have a 2.5 we have tracked since Mid 05 (a lot) and it has the stock pan and data lol

B

I have a Mantis deep sump for sale if anyone is looking for one.. LOL came off a BLOWN engine :) I'd gladly part with it.

Anyone recall the first version from Mantis? You know? the one where they dropped the pan with a spacer but did not extend the pickup.. leaving pickup sucking air on high G corners?

POS



B

Wingnut?? Dallas?? How are you??

The one I have has the pick up extension down past the windage tray. It is a one piece. Just developed I believe. I would be interested in any data/experience you have with this..The next step would be an accusump

I have noted some saying the X-51 baffle is pointless without the rest of Porsche's system ie special scavange pumps etc. Perhaps an accusump can make up for this...but for how long? I am not aware of the reasons why but I would guess it because it looks like oil is susceptible to escape around the high lateral baffles over the low fore and aft baffles....just a guess

I have a car we are building an engine for that does not have the X51 (and has data) I'll make it point to ping you back with what I find when the new engine goes in with data.

Typically.. I hear people comment about the X51 and say "it only works with the other pieces".. those are typically 996/997 people. Having the engine hanging off the ass end of the car presents another set of oiling issues. I believe.. the X51 helps out a LOT. Can it be better? yes, but for a simple bolt on that is easy to purchase? It works very well.

The X51 keeps the oil from going around the "walls" it seals to the crank case on 4 corners where as the stock pan does not seal.. the oil can go around the plastic walls in a high G corner.

With an S? I'd be more worried cracked heads and IMS failure!!


B

Thanks that is interesting info on the X-51! I may consider moding to work with my stuff. I was not aware of special oiling issues on 996/997s

I have ceramic dual row retro fit in there now; hoping this will be enough!

Not sure how to stave off cracked heads other than pressure bleeding after cooling system work...as in changing the water pump

I used to talk with Charles 1-2 a times a month (since 2000) but ever since I hooked him up with one of the major wholesalers in our industry... I don't hear from him anymore :)

I'm planning on driving AutoClub Speedway (Fontana) Roval course on 11/20 with my existing street tires (treadwear rating 180). I usually go into Turn 1 at about 125mph and maintain 120+mph through Turn 2. I've been there four days previously this year with no problems. Ok to go one more time with the stock oil setup?

You'll be fine :) I'll probably be at the event with a customer car or two.

Most of the Texas BoxsterSpec cars are running Accusumps, but very few of them here in CA.

Did you data log 120? On the Hoosiers I see 132-133 in T2 (In a Spec car)



B

another note on oil starvation:

there is a piston/spring assembly inside the oil pump that varies oil pressure with temperature. when the car is cold, it's designed to increase the pressure to around 100psi. once the car warms up, it backs off to 'normal'.

my car was running about 16-17psi (hot) at idle, which seems low to me. on a hunch, i ordered a new piston & spring. interestingly, the new piston has a chamfered edge whereas the original piston had a sharp edge. this leads me to believe that porsche suspected some binding of the piston assembly in some instances......

at any rate, with the new piston / spring installed, the car is now at 23psi hot. i never logged the oil pressure under load, so i have no idea what (if any) effect it has on pressure at RPM, but i certainly feel a little better. loss of oil pressure at temp is a big concern in the M96. anything that reduces the risk to that end is a win in my book. cost is less than $20 and you can do it in 5 minutes when you change your oil.

FYI, part numbers are:

Piston: 997.107.125.01 ($ 5.00)
Spring: 996.107.127.53 ($10.00)
Gasket: 996.107.123.50 ($ 2.00)

Yes I remember this thing really wondered about what it actually does. I thought it was at the front of the engine and really hard to get to. There is an old post on here with a schematic. No idea on how search for it.

I seem to recall that it appeared to modulate the volume oil delivered by the pump. Good to know that there is boost in oil pressure when starting up. Guess you guys with an accusump could perhaps watch the accumulator modulate depending on what air pressure you put in there to test this thing??

very easy to get to. it's on the bottom of the oil pump facing downward. it really does take only a minute to change. you're right about the accusump; the first time i fired the car up w/ the accusump, i though the gage broke!

schematic photo of oil pump (change items 5, 25 & 26):

here's an actual pic. spring guide bolt circled in red.

VERY interesting!

Would you think that this could be the possible solution to my "low oil pressure on the track" problem? http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/29545-low-oil-pressure-track.html

In a nutshell: Oil pressure drops mid-session

Thanks
Chris

So,

if I want to go the X51 route do I need both: the baffle AND the oil pan
or is the X51 oil pan identical to a standard oil pan?

since you're seeing a drop on straights as well as in the corners, i think it's absolutely possible.

also, not sure if you have an S. if you don't, upgrade to the S oil cooler. hot oil gets thin & pressure drops.

here is an option to get an x-51 style baffle in your car for a few less $$$, and without having to modify ...

New Oil Baffle - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Heat is the reason the oil pressure is dropping. Waste of time to change out that spring. Add 3rd radiator/BoxsterS water lines to the 2.5 car.