Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-03-2021, 06:34 PM   #41
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,182
They could take a test sample all day long but that still wont tell them if there is water (generally speaking). they need to drain all of the tank and then the water will go to the top and fuel to the bottom.

You dont have to remove the headers for plugs, FSM doesn't even say to do that. Keep in mind he has it at the dealer so figure 4 hours labor and at least $30/plug. Little high, but I have seen dealers charging $185/hour lately.

__________________
2000 Boxster Tiptronic
2003 Boxster
2003 996 C2 Cab
2002 996 (SOLD)
1986 944 (gone but missed)
Stl-986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2021, 06:52 PM   #42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Well my point was with O compression on two cylinders they want to change plugs.
WTF.
And charge $882.00 to drain the fuel and change plugs. Robbery.
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2021, 08:51 PM   #43
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,182
I dont disagree at all.

On the plus side if it is fuel related he wont be on the hook for the bill.

I doubt it's fuel though.

If it were me I would have them to do a leak down test, followed by scoping the cylinders and then providing video of each cylinder.
__________________
2000 Boxster Tiptronic
2003 Boxster
2003 996 C2 Cab
2002 996 (SOLD)
1986 944 (gone but missed)
Stl-986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 04:13 AM   #44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stl-986 View Post
I dont disagree at all.

On the plus side if it is fuel related he wont be on the hook for the bill.

I doubt it's fuel though.

If it were me I would have them to do a leak down test, followed by scoping the cylinders and then providing video of each cylinder.
Scoping yes. A leak down test???? If you don't have compression a leak down test is not going to tell you anything new. Spending money to find out something he already knows.
O compression on 2 cylinders.
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 04:26 AM   #45
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
Well my point was with O compression on two cylinders they want to change plugs.
WTF.
And charge $882.00 to drain the fuel and change plugs. Robbery.
iím 21, so they might just assume iím a moron..... they said those plugs are fouled already and i said i know because i saw them when pulling them for a compression test. i had ran the car for maybe a minute while checking the wiring after installing them. He basically explained that they need to do their own diagnostic of the car, even though i did mine.

I daily drove a 72 karmann ghia for 3 years before i got this car. I know this is a totally different animal but i do know my way around a car.
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 04:28 AM   #46
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stl-986 View Post
They could take a test sample all day long but that still wont tell them if there is water (generally speaking). they need to drain all of the tank and then the water will go to the top and fuel to the bottom.

You dont have to remove the headers for plugs, FSM doesn't even say to do that. Keep in mind he has it at the dealer so figure 4 hours labor and at least $30/plug. Little high, but I have seen dealers charging $185/hour lately.
Thatís why i gave them the green light on draining the tank because iím assuming they siphoned some out from the filler neck, and the tank is full.

I heard them say that for four hours of labor is $700, did the math and theyíre charging $175/h
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 04:31 AM   #47
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stl-986 View Post
I dont disagree at all.

On the plus side if it is fuel related he wont be on the hook for the bill.

I doubt it's fuel though.

If it were me I would have them to do a leak down test, followed by scoping the cylinders and then providing video of each cylinder.
Thatís why iím really hoping it is fuel. i mean i made it maybe 600 feet away from the station before it called it quits. the pump was a little slower than usual, and didnít smell as strong as usual..... but then again the m96 has a reputation, and i also have a reputation of having strange coincidences
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 01:46 PM   #48
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecp View Post
iím 21, so they might just assume iím a moron..... they said those plugs are fouled already and i said i know because i saw them when pulling them for a compression test. i had ran the car for maybe a minute while checking the wiring after installing them. He basically explained that they need to do their own diagnostic of the car, even though i did mine.

I daily drove a 72 karmann ghia for 3 years before i got this car. I know this is a totally different animal but i do know my way around a car.
Yes I think you do very well for a young fella.
I never take a car to a shop unless it is a recall situation.
So some of the thing shops do and the price they charge seems crazy to me.
I understand that they want to do there own diagnostics of the car.
But in the end it is still about the bottom line.
I also understand that they have to make a profit to stay in business.
But to me $822.00 to drain the tank and change plugs is nuts.

The real issue is your engine.
You say the plugs were fouled when you pulled them to do the compression check.
How were they fouled????
wet oil? black carbon? black carbon with sort of a powdery look ??
Grayish with sort of a powdery ash look???
Just trying to get a feel for what happened based on any info you have
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 02:45 PM   #49
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
Yes I think you do very well for a young fella.
I never take a car to a shop unless it is a recall situation.
So some of the thing shops do and the price they charge seems crazy to me.
I understand that they want to do there own diagnostics of the car.
But in the end it is still about the bottom line.
I also understand that they have to make a profit to stay in business.
But to me $822.00 to drain the tank and change plugs is nuts.

The real issue is your engine.
You say the plugs were fouled when you pulled them to do the compression check.
How were they fouled????
wet oil? black carbon? black carbon with sort of a powdery look ??
Grayish with sort of a powdery ash look???
Just trying to get a feel for what happened based on any info you have
Iíve been burned by shops twice, and those were the last time i took my cars to anyone.

I installed a set of e3s out of curiosity in january and kind of forgot about it because the car ran well, and then re installed the lightly used berus that had maybe 2k miles on them last weekend. the e3s looked strange when i pulled them and iíll post a photo if i can figure it out. i tried spraying sea foam into bank one from the intake boot (the one that connects the tb plenum to the runner with the hole for the valve) but never ran the engine enough to get it all through the system. I was trying to determine if it was a fuel issue by seeing if cylinders started firing when i sprayed it in (they didnít)

But they looked wet, smelled a little oily, and a little like fuel and the tips were dark. looked a little like carbon to me but that could have been the sea foam loosening up deposits from the head and piston.

When i installed the berus they looked perfectly grey/tan and iíll also attach photos if i can figure it out
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 04:24 PM   #50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecp View Post
Iíve been burned by shops twice, and those were the last time i took my cars to anyone.

I installed a set of e3s out of curiosity in january and kind of forgot about it because the car ran well, and then re installed the lightly used berus that had maybe 2k miles on them last weekend. the e3s looked strange when i pulled them and iíll post a photo if i can figure it out. i tried spraying sea foam into bank one from the intake boot (the one that connects the tb plenum to the runner with the hole for the valve) but never ran the engine enough to get it all through the system. I was trying to determine if it was a fuel issue by seeing if cylinders started firing when i sprayed it in (they didnít)

But they looked wet, smelled a little oily, and a little like fuel and the tips were dark. looked a little like carbon to me but that could have been the sea foam loosening up deposits from the head and piston.

When i installed the berus they looked perfectly grey/tan and iíll also attach photos if i can figure it out
So just spit balling here.
I would expect the plugs to be wet because of the Sea foam.
I would expect them to smell a little like fuel because the fuel/air mixture was not burning due to no compression.

Smelled a little oily hmmm and looked a little like carbon.!!!!
I would expect a little carbon if those Cylinders were getting a little oil in the fuel/air mixture when the engine was running.
carbon=burned oil.

Was your exhaust ever blueish or whitish or not looking right???
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 05:25 PM   #51
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
So just spit balling here.
I would expect the plugs to be wet because of the Sea foam.
I would expect them to smell a little like fuel because the fuel/air mixture was not burning due to no compression.

Smelled a little oily hmmm and looked a little like carbon.!!!!
I would expect a little carbon if those Cylinders were getting a little oil in the fuel/air mixture when the engine was running.
carbon=burned oil.

Was your exhaust ever blueish or whitish or not looking right???
Only when the aos failed. And then the replacement failed two months later. Nothing visual out of the exhaust, and i would have seen it because itís a ďraceĒ exhaust.
Thereís always a film of oil in the intake from the AOS. it wasnít like that when i bought the car (it was bone dry inside), but i could never quite figure out why it never went back to having zero visual oil in the intake after replacement. maybe just an inferior part to the original i suppose, but good enough to pass.
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 05:36 PM   #52
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecp View Post
Only when the aos failed. And then the replacement failed two months later. Nothing visual out of the exhaust, and i would have seen it because itís a ďraceĒ exhaust.
Thereís always a film of oil in the intake from the AOS. it wasnít like that when i bought the car (it was bone dry inside), but i could never quite figure out why it never went back to having zero visual oil in the intake after replacement. maybe just an inferior part to the original i suppose, but good enough to pass.
My intake always has a little oil as well.
I get the bit of blue exhaust on startup but just for the first few seconds.
My plugs always look like they should though.

keep us posted
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2021, 06:37 PM   #53
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
My intake always has a little oil as well.
I get the bit of blue exhaust on startup but just for the first few seconds.
My plugs always look like they should though.

keep us posted
Iíd rarely get blue on startup unless i parked on a steep hill and even that was rare.

hopefully iíll find out something new tomorrow, and really hoping itís something good
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 08:12 AM   #54
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
They found nothing in the gas tank. Looks like itís just a really bad coincidence. they want $500 to do a bore scope and i just donít know if itís worth it at this point. Donít know what to do
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 08:58 AM   #55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecp View Post
They found nothing in the gas tank. Looks like itís just a really bad coincidence. they want $500 to do a bore scope and i just donít know if itís worth it at this point. Donít know what to do
You could buy a scope and do that yourself for around 20% of that cost or maybe less.
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 09:29 AM   #56
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
You could buy a scope and do that yourself for around 20% of that cost or maybe less.
I could, but iím going to have them do it. i showed them the form racetrac sent me which just states is it in your professional OPINION that the gasoline caused the problems. iím hoping a borescope will help them come to a conclusion about what happened. even after explaining what happened with the car they still think it sounds very bizarre. Holding out for anything good. If they canít explain why the engine would blow like that, to me that points to one thing, but then again, i might be a little biased
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 09:55 AM   #57
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,182
I'm thinking the scope is going to help you figure out the problem. I haven't seen these happen with these cars, but anything is possible.

With my jetski's if the wrong plug is used or it is running too rich the piston's are known for getting holes burned out on the top of the piston, which in turn obviously causes no compression. On 2 cycle ski's this is always cause of not running the right mixture. Doesn't apply 100% to a car obviously but I think it COULD be possible to happen depending on the gas quality. Scope will be pretty obvious.

There are some very cheap cameras you can get on amazon that hook up to your phone, just for the future. Think I got one for around $15. Quality isn't great, but it does it's job.
__________________
2000 Boxster Tiptronic
2003 Boxster
2003 996 C2 Cab
2002 996 (SOLD)
1986 944 (gone but missed)
Stl-986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 11:29 AM   #58
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stl-986 View Post
I'm thinking the scope is going to help you figure out the problem. I haven't seen these happen with these cars, but anything is possible.

With my jetski's if the wrong plug is used or it is running too rich the piston's are known for getting holes burned out on the top of the piston, which in turn obviously causes no compression. On 2 cycle ski's this is always cause of not running the right mixture. Doesn't apply 100% to a car obviously but I think it COULD be possible to happen depending on the gas quality. Scope will be pretty obvious.

There are some very cheap cameras you can get on amazon that hook up to your phone, just for the future. Think I got one for around $15. Quality isn't great, but it does it's job.
They said one valve is stuck open. they said it probably needs new head and cams but maybe itís just a busted valve spring? or a busted lifter. or a busted cam. maybe itís time to get my hands dirty again
ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 02:41 PM   #59
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodland Wa
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecp View Post
They said one valve is stuck open. they said it probably needs new head and cams but maybe itís just a busted valve spring? or a busted lifter. or a busted cam. maybe itís time to get my hands dirty again
Yep your not really going to know what happened until you start to get some visual feedback on it.

I was trying to think of what would cause two cyl. to loose all compression yet allow the engine to turn over and start.
Hole in both pistons very unlikely.
I thought maybe a busted cam with valves stuck open.
But you would think a piston would hit a valve if it was stuck open.
Then all kinds of things can happen.
So I am curious as to what happened.
blue62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 03:41 PM   #60
ecp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
Yep your not really going to know what happened until you start to get some visual feedback on it.

I was trying to think of what would cause two cyl. to loose all compression yet allow the engine to turn over and start.
Hole in both pistons very unlikely.
I thought maybe a busted cam with valves stuck open.
But you would think a piston would hit a valve if it was stuck open.
Then all kinds of things can happen.
So I am curious as to what happened.
They said the pistons looked good. hoping for busted valve spring or a stuck lifter but iíve already got a used head and cams priced out. just gotta get the car back and tear into it on a weekend

ecp is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Tags
cel , misfire


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2023 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page