Tip transmission while I'm in there...

[Starter986]

Good morning,

After the car being down since mid-October, and a guy who the second week of November said he'd repair the tiptronic transmission "next weel" but since has had one excuse/reason after another... I've found another mechanic who with me will tackle the repair.

Forum members have suggested it is the inner shaft seal. That said...

Would someone mind sharing with me exactly which part(s) I need?

Pelican shows a torque converter seal. Is that the same as an inner shaft seal?

A part number for the correct and proper part greatly would be appreciated. Further... if there are any other seals or parts I should consider "while I'm in there" I would appreciate the/those part numbers.

Also... rear main seal. Is that something I should consider "while I'm in there"? Anything else?

Finally... any special tools that are a must have?

I'd like to get the car under repair late next week. Your guidance is much welcomed.

Thank you.

Jim

[911monty]

The Pelican Torque converter seal is the correct part. Buy the Porsche seal. Even though the other is OEM my experience is they are not of equal quality. Not worth a few bucks difference.

Yes changing the RMS would be a good idea, But if it's not leaking and you are not going to use the proper installation tools, then might be best left alone. If you do want to change it, then purchase the upgraded seal and rent the tools from LNE. And I know some will say it can be done with DIY tools, it simply is not worth having to possibly pull the trans again for a mulligan.

Good Luck

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by 911monty

The Pelican Torque converter seal is the correct part. Buy the Porsche seal. Even though the other is OEM my experience is they are not of equal quality. Not worth a few bucks difference.

Yes changing the RMS would be a good idea, But if it's not leaking and you are not going to use the proper installation tools, then might be best left alone. If you do want to change it, then purchase the upgraded seal and rent the tools from LNE. And I know some will say it can be done with DIY tools, it simply is not worth having to possibly pull the trans again for a mulligan.

Good Luck

Thank you! I saw the Z seal... but will roll with the Porsche part.

Do you believe I should be buying new bell housing bolts... or any other bolts associated with the reinstallation of the transmision? I'm a little concerned about torquing down the bolts knowing that in some cases reusing bolts is a no-no.

Thank you!

[911monty]

You will only need to replace bell housing bolts if you lose one. Converter to flex plate can also be reused and can be replaced later without pulling the trans if you choose to.

Now, you recently changed your trans fluid, and the trans had issues with your son driving the car hard in the mountains. The question is why did the trans blow the seal. Possibly just failed. Overheated and filled too high? How many miles did the trans have before changing the fluid? Any signs of slippage when it was driven hard?

When you pull the trans note wether the seal has failed or is pushed out. Dump the torque converter and inspect the fluid. Is it thick with clutch material? Burnt smelling? Changing fluid in a high mileage trans can sometimes cause failure by removing the clutch disk material that was circulating and the clutches start slipping.

Just trying to give some ideas to check out.

Good Luck

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by 911monty

You will only need to replace bell housing bolts if you lose one.

Good tip, but actually you Should loose the triple square bolt that is everything but useless...

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by 911monty

You will only need to replace bell housing bolts if you lose one. Converter to flex plate can also be reused and can be replaced later without pulling the trans if you choose to.

Now, you recently changed your trans fluid, and the trans had issues with your son driving the car hard in the mountains. The question is why did the trans blow the seal. Possibly just failed. Overheated and filled too high? How many miles did the trans have before changing the fluid? Any signs of slippage when it was driven hard?

When you pull the trans note wether the seal has failed or is pushed out. Dump the torque converter and inspect the fluid. Is it thick with clutch material? Burnt smelling? Changing fluid in a high mileage trans can sometimes cause failure by removing the clutch disk material that was circulating and the clutches start slipping.

Just trying to give some ideas to check out.

Good Luck

Sorry for the delay in responding to your questions.

I will have my mechanic inspect the TC fluid. I had changed the transmission filter and fluid ~1,200 miles before the failure. At that time the pan was clean with no debris.

Were there signs of slippage when driven hard? Good question. My son was driving it... and there were twisties where he would "gun it" paddle shifting up and down. The Rs were all over the map. Up. Down. Up. Down. I was just enjoying the drive. I didn't "feel" any slipping while I was listening to and watching the shifts. Anyhow... at some point I smelled "smoke"... then it began filling the cabin (top was down). At that point I told my son to pull over and "pull over" was about two country blocks away. I told him to not shift or give it gas and relatively we rolled to a stop.

I got out... looked under... and fluid was pouring out.

When I pulled the pan the tranny fluid didn't look extraordinarily dark (it had been only ~1,200 miles)... and the filter looked good with no debris at all or discoloration.

This morning ordered the output shaft seal (Pelican/Porsche) and have on hand 9-10L of Pentosin 1... new trans filter... pan gasket.

My mechanic likely will pick it up next week... trailer it to his garage... and I'll be there during the repair assisting where I am able. It's been 4+ months since it failed and 3 months of that was spent "waiting" for another mechanic to pick it up. I fired him. New guy is on the ball.

A great Sunday to you.

[Starter986]

Picked up the car Friday morning. Had the transmission (Tip) rebuilt... two new boots right rear axle... oil change.

Hopped on the freeway for the ~70 trip home. A few miles in I smelled what I suspected to be residual oil/fluid "burning off". Car shifted fine... with smooth transitions between gears. The smell surfaced during the entire drive home... but no smoke.

As I pulled into my driveway the smoke was revealed. Backed in... got out and looked underneath. No leaking and the smoke was coming from the rear of the car. The rear end was HOT... as it was emanating from under the bumper cover. The muffler seemed hotter than usual.

WTF?

I suspected that maybe I had been driving with the emergency brake slightly activated... as I could think of no other reason why it would be so hot and with the smoke (which lasted about five minutes until it subsided).

Later in the afternoon, after it had cooled off, I went out to reinstall my rear diffusers. No leaks under the car... no unusual smells. After installing the parts I decided to take the car for a ride thinking that if the emergency brake had stuck to the rotor since it had been sitting for ~7-8 months maybe the drive home had released it.

Hopped on the 62 eastbound and drove it ~three miles making a u-turn. Car was warmed to operating temperature... started driving back and, while looking at the rearview mirror noticed some smoke coming out. I smelled it, too.

I pulled over and, as I was walking to the rear noticed the trail of fluid. Looked underneath and fluid was coming out (same spot... between engine and tranny).

****************.

Hopped in and drove it the 70 feet to get it off the road and into a parking lot. Got out... looked underneath... and the fluid was falling out. The entire back-half underside coated with fluid... and smoking like a mother****************er.

Phoned my wife... told her I needed to be picked up (only 1.5 miles from home). She was NOT happy as she had just paid $4700 for the repair (including the boots and a couple ancillary parts while "in there").

I hardly slept that evening hoping I didn't arrive back to the car finding broken windows... torn top... missing sound system.

Stopped by a local tow company (next morning, 630A) for I used them for the $350 tow to Riverside... told the guy I needed a tow. $50. Lets do this. Left a message with the mechanic Friday night (closed weekends). The car sits parked in my carport... waiting for Monday morning.

I have a question for our members... here's a little more information...

Rebuilt comes with a 12,000 mile/One year warranty. If the transmission fails it is the customer's responsibility to get the car to the shop (which, in my case, is another ****************ing $350).

Knowing, now, that the smell on the way home wasn't residue from grease/oil on the exhaust or other part... that transmission started failing <15 miles into my trip home. The transmission failed, literally, only 75-80 miles into the warranty. My question...

Should my mechanic be picking up the tow fee back to his shop... and let him cover it with the transmission rebuild shop? What would you do?

I'd be OK paying a tow fee if the transmission failed 8... 10... thousand miles into the warranty... but, <80 miles? I'm a reasonable guy... and would be OK paying half the tow fee. Finally, I can be a litigous mother****************er... but I really like this mechanic. While he, really, only removed and replacd the transmission... it should be his beef with the rebuild shop.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent, and share. I'll keep the board updated.

Have a nice Sunday.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Picked up the car Friday morning. Had the transmission (Tip) rebuilt... two new boots right rear axle... oil change.

Hopped on the freeway for the ~70 trip home. A few miles in I smelled what I suspected to be residual oil/fluid "burning off". Car shifted fine... with smooth transitions between gears. The smell surfaced during the entire drive home... but no smoke.

As I pulled into my driveway the smoke was revealed. Backed in... got out and looked underneath. No leaking and the smoke was coming from the rear of the car. The rear end was HOT... as it was emanating from under the bumper cover. The muffler seemed hotter than usual.

WTF?

I suspected that maybe I had been driving with the emergency brake slightly activated... as I could think of no other reason why it would be so hot and with the smoke (which lasted about five minutes until it subsided).

Later in the afternoon, after it had cooled off, I went out to reinstall my rear diffusers. No leaks under the car... no unusual smells. After installing the parts I decided to take the car for a ride thinking that if the emergency brake had stuck to the rotor since it had been sitting for ~7-8 months maybe the drive home had released it.

Hopped on the 62 eastbound and drove it ~three miles making a u-turn. Car was warmed to operating temperature... started driving back and, while looking at the rearview mirror noticed some smoke coming out. I smelled it, too.

I pulled over and, as I was walking to the rear noticed the trail of fluid. Looked underneath and fluid was coming out (same spot... between engine and tranny).

****************.

Hopped in and drove it the 70 feet to get it off the road and into a parking lot. Got out... looked underneath... and the fluid was falling out. The entire back-half underside coated with fluid... and smoking like a mother****************er.

Phoned my wife... told her I needed to be picked up (only 1.5 miles from home). She was NOT happy as she had just paid $4700 for the repair (including the boots and a couple ancillary parts while "in there").

I hardly slept that evening hoping I didn't arrive back to the car finding broken windows... torn top... missing sound system.

Stopped by a local tow company (next morning, 630A) for I used them for the $350 tow to Riverside... told the guy I needed a tow. $50. Lets do this. Left a message with the mechanic Friday night (closed weekends). The car sits parked in my carport... waiting for Monday morning.

I have a question for our members... here's a little more information...

Rebuilt comes with a 12,000 mile/One year warranty. If the transmission fails it is the customer's responsibility to get the car to the shop (which, in my case, is another ****************ing $350).

Knowing, now, that the smell on the way home wasn't residue from grease/oil on the exhaust or other part... that transmission started failing <15 miles into my trip home. The transmission failed, literally, only 75-80 miles into the warranty. My question...

Should my mechanic be picking up the tow fee back to his shop... and let him cover it with the transmission rebuild shop? What would you do?

I'd be OK paying a tow fee if the transmission failed 8... 10... thousand miles into the warranty... but, <80 miles? I'm a reasonable guy... and would be OK paying half the tow fee. Finally, I can be a litigous mother****************er... but I really like this mechanic. While he, really, only removed and replacd the transmission... it should be his beef with the rebuild shop.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent, and share. I'll keep the board updated.

Have a nice Sunday.

Man, Starter! That's pretty f&cked up! I feel for you, brother!

In regards to your question, it depends. First of all, are you sure it's tranny fluid leaking? If so, where it is leaking from? A tranny cooler line? If so, then it was an installation error and the mechanic should cover the tow because it's his error. If it's leaking from somewhere that's NOT installation related and more related to the rebuild, then it's not your mechanic's fault and he shouldn't have to eat it. He could, however, make a case to the rebuilder and maybe they'll own up to it.

I hope your luck changes, my friend!

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Man, Starter! That's pretty f&cked up! I feel for you, brother!

In regards to your question, it depends. First of all, are you sure it's tranny fluid leaking? If so, where it is leaking from? A tranny cooler line? If so, then it was an installation error and the mechanic should cover the tow because it's his error. If it's leaking from somewhere that's NOT installation related and more related to the rebuild, then it's not your mechanic's fault and he shouldn't have to eat it. He could, however, make a case to the rebuilder and maybe they'll own up to it.

I hope your luck changes, my friend!

Thanks, Pipe.

The fluid was gushing out fron the same spot it did last October: from between where the transmission and engine are mated. When I looked underneath it was clear it was an October repeat. It was a sickening feeling.

Mt wife met the mechanic... and found him "personable, polite, and real". I'm hoping he remains so when I phone him at 8A, Pacific, this morning. I'm certain the car will be absent the driveway and on its way back to Riverside sometime this morning.

[Starter986]

It's been 3 weeks since I got the car back... after the second transmission rebuild. Everything appears to be working great.. as it should after the $4800 repair bill (including the 2 rear boots. Yesretday converted the top to manual... and will wait until the weather is more favorable (cooler) before I begin diagnosing why the top failed.

When I finished removing the started, for the trans rebuild, I went to close the top. It started closing... then got 'stuck' followed by a loud POP! I had left the plastic shop light between the clamsheel and the lid. Squeezed the light out... and no worky. No sounds, bells, whistles, or buzzers. Nothing popped off the 'arms' (not the little ball joint things). Everything appeared to be in proper form... but no juice (sounds) to the transmission motors.

The POP didn't reveal anything mechanical wrong (to the eye and without digging). Does anyone have an idea what may have been that loud POP I heard? Where would you start?

Thanks!

[blue62]

Originally Posted by Starter986

It's been 3 weeks since I got the car back... after the second transmission rebuild. Everything appears to be working great.. as it should after the $4800 repair bill (including the 2 rear boots. Yesretday converted the top to manual... and will wait until the weather is more favorable (cooler) before I begin diagnosing why the top failed.

When I finished removing the started, for the trans rebuild, I went to close the top. It started closing... then got 'stuck' followed by a loud POP! I had left the plastic shop light between the clamsheel and the lid. Squeezed the light out... and no worky. No sounds, bells, whistles, or buzzers. Nothing popped off the 'arms' (not the little ball joint things). Everything appeared to be in proper form... but no juice (sounds) to the transmission motors.

The POP didn't reveal anything mechanical wrong (to the eye and without digging). Does anyone have an idea what may have been that loud POP I heard? Where would you start?

Thanks!

I you see nothing external that may be the issue.
You may want to consider the drive gears in the motor, I believe they are plastic.
Or there are plastic components in the motor drive system.
Do a search on the issue I remember seeing some pictures of the motor drive system here on the forum.
Perhaps the pictures will give you some insight.
So I think the place to start is to get as familiar as possible with the drive system first.
Then you will have an idea of the weak points in the system and where to look.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by blue62

I you see nothing external that may be the issue.
You may want to consider the drive gears in the motor, I believe they are plastic.
Or there are plastic components in the motor drive system.
Do a search on the issue I remember seeing some pictures of the motor drive system here on the forum.
Perhaps the pictures will give you some insight.
So I think the place to start is to get as familiar as possible with the drive system first.
Then you will have an idea of the weak points in the system and where to look.

Thank you. I've read through the years many posts on the matter... watched a few vids... in anticipation of, at some point, a top failure. I'll do more research on the drive system, thank you.

Even with the POP... I hear nothing 'electrical'... 'mechanical' anywhere through the system when pressing the top button (on the dash). Emergency brake light works fine.

For now the top is down. The humps, I believe, help hold down the clamshell... keeping it from rattling around. Sooner or later I'll be inspired to get back into the top.

Thanks!!