Matching Numbers

[Muskoka Minute]

EveningI Guys

What should I do? I have a 2004 Boxster SE. 3.2 and it needs a new heart...

Here is what I'm considering :


1. Rebuild my 3.2, with L&N to a 3.8 etc, and keep the numbers matching. $23K
2. Install a 996 carrera 3.4 built to a 3.8 L&N with 5000k on it for $18k

What would you do?
How important is it to keep the numbers matching?

Need advice because if its up to me I will make the wrong call 😀

Cheers!

[rexcramer]

How long do you plan to keep it after the work is completed? If you are going to keep it indefinitely, is it gonna bother you? If it isn't an issue for you, who cares what the next owner thinks.

[PaulE]

If the 996 engine was a 3.4 originally then it is a 5 chain engine and has an earlier version of the Motronic than your 2004 Boxster, so I wouldn't go that way. The 996 engine went to 3.6 liters and the later 3 timing chain engine in 2002. Have you seen the Pelican article on Boxster engine swaps?

[ike84]

+1 to pauls comment. I wouldn't worry about numbers but you need to make sure the motor matches to your current setup. If not you should carefully check a wiring diagram to make sure you can make it work.

With that being said, that's a crazy amount of money to spend on this car. If it were me and I needed a new engine I would go nonporsche. I know that sounds blasphemous but it's really not for two reasons. First, a motor is just that and while the flat 6 is an interesting motor is certainly not the pinnacle of automotive engineering. Second, you can get as much if not more(sometimes WAY more) power with another motor. For example, belt driven audi V8s are dirt cheap, bolt to our transmissions, and will make 300 hp all day with no tweaks. With tweaks the sky is the limit(just ask truegearhead). It's not plug and play but there is a really well documented build thread flooating around and is not all that complicated. I have dinner a ton of research on this so if you need any help just let me know. Best of luck!

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[CrisZenithBlue]

indeed 18k for that carrera engine sounds like a lot. 2 years ago a friend had a 3.6L rebuilt for his 996 by a reputable company here in Miami (Vertex) at the tune of 13k just for the engine. His engine has been solid ever since but it's not going to be bullet proof.

I'm already on my second engine and if this ones craps out i am probably going with something non-porsche, maybe the V8 Audi one

[Muskoka Minute]

Originally Posted by ike84

+1 to pauls comment. I wouldn't worry about numbers but you need to make sure the motor matches to your current setup. If not you should carefully check a wiring diagram to make sure you can make it work.

With that being said, that's a crazy amount of money to spend on this car. If it were me and I needed a new engine I would go nonporsche. I know that sounds blasphemous but it's really not for two reasons. First, a motor is just that and while the flat 6 is an interesting motor is certainly not the pinnacle of automotive engineering. Second, you can get as much if not more(sometimes WAY more) power with another motor. For example, belt driven audi V8s are dirt cheap, bolt to our transmissions, and will make 300 hp all day with no tweaks. With tweaks the sky is the limit(just ask truegearhead). It's not plug and play but there is a really well documented build thread flooating around and is not all that complicated. I have dinner a ton of research on this so if you need any help just let me know. Best of luck!

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Thats interesting never thought of that.... I have seen LS motors...

What is the largest Audi motor that you can put in with a ton of extra work?

Thanks Bart

[ike84]

Here's a list of the 4.2 V8s that I compiled. There are essentially 3 generations here - belt driven, chain driven, and then the fsi.

The belt driven motors are essentially bulletproof and can be had for $500 on ebay. Nearly identical size to our flat 6 and mount to the 986 5 speed and 987 5 /6speed tranny's without modification. Custom mounts will need to be fabbed but it's not overly complicated. Huge aftermarket for mods, especially for forced induction applications.

The chain driven are also great but they have an issue with the chain tensioners - 3 hour job to fix with the motor out of the car but parts are stupid expensive (3k if I remember correctly).

The fsi generation are really fantastic but the ecu gets complicated and aftermarket ecu's aren't an option unless you use motronic (again, big $).

Please don't hold me to any of this, all if this is info that I gathered in piecemeal fashion online. There's only one really well documented build with an ABZ in a 986 to a 5 speed transmission that I have been able to find. He did a fantastic job and at the end of it had a great looking and running vehicle. Truegearhead is building in that platform but he is doing a twin KKK turbo application mated to an 01e transmission and is shooting for a 700hp rocket ship!

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[ike84]

Let's try that again.

Also, here's that build site.

https://sites.google.com/view/boxsterv8swap/home

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[ike84]

Wow, once againhttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/600f5b5ce8312/Audi%20V8%204.2L.pdf

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[Starter986]

Originally Posted by ike84

Here's a list of the 4.2 V8s that I compiled. There are essentially 3 generations here - belt driven, chain driven, and then the fsi.

The belt driven motors are essentially bulletproof and can be had for $500 on ebay. Nearly identical size to our flat 6 and mount to the 986 5 speed and 987 5 /6speed tranny's without modification. Custom mounts will need to be fabbed but it's not overly complicated. Huge aftermarket for mods, especially for forced induction applications.

The chain driven are also great but they have an issue with the chain tensioners - 3 hour job to fix with the motor out of the car but parts are stupid expensive (3k if I remember correctly).

The fsi generation are really fantastic but the ecu gets complicated and aftermarket ecu's aren't an option unless you use motronic (again, big $).

Please don't hold me to any of this, all if this is info that I gathered in piecemeal fashion online. There's only one really well documented build with an ABZ in a 986 to a 5 speed transmission that I have been able to find. He did a fantastic job and at the end of it had a great looking and running vehicle. Truegearhead is building in that platform but he is doing a twin KKK turbo application mated to an 01e transmission and is shooting for a 700hp rocket ship!

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I plead ignorance. I've read of the various engine swaps... to a 5/6 speed. Can the same swap work with a tiptronic? Thank you.

[Muskoka Minute]

Originally Posted by ike84

Wow, once againhttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/600f5b5ce8312/Audi%20V8%204.2L.pdf

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This link does not work for me?
Also the link for the different engines won't work.
Any chance you can re post or pm them to me?

I never realized this was being done. (I live such a sheltered life. LOL)

Cheers!

[husker boxster]

Whether you go with the 996 engine or something else, do you need to get rid of the original engine? You could get a replacement and hang onto the original. Then if you decide to sell, you can offer the original (broken) engine as part of the deal.

I think matching #s is less of an issue with these generations of Porsches. Everyone understands the volatility of these engines. I don't think it's as big of a deal as a 60s or 70s muscle car. There was a 69 ZL1 Camaro at Mecum Auction last wk. I think they said they only made 69 of them (alum block 427). This one had a 'date correct' engine in it and it didn't seem to affect the bidding. Everyone knows these were race cars and stuff happens when you race them. There were still only 69 produced and it had the type of engine it was manufactured with. Not quite an apples to apples comparison to your Porsche but you get the gist.

[ike84]

Originally Posted by Starter986

I plead ignorance. I've read of the various engine swaps... to a 5/6 speed. Can the same swap work with a tiptronic? Thank you.

I truthfully have no idea. Most swaps to other motors require a second stock ecu to run the motor while the original pcar ecu stays to manage the rest of the vehicle. Tiptronics rely heavily on the ecu for operation so I don't know how that would jive

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[Muskoka Minute]

I have to agree about keeping the numbers matching.
Not sure which way to go for the new heart but at the very least I will keep the original 3.2.
The Audi transplant looks interesting and so does the w12 out of the Bently "WOW".
The LnN 3.8 is a good option as its ready to go now! No sure on the price.
It done right, Je pistons, Carrillo rods, Nickie's, IMS permeant solution, any and all wear items were changed. this was the owners own engine.
Does this info change any minds??

Thanks for all the help so far guys...

[itsnotanova]

Originally Posted by Starter986

I plead ignorance. I've read of the various engine swaps... to a 5/6 speed. Can the same swap work with a tiptronic? Thank you.

I think in theory I would say yes as the tiptronic is also used in Audi's. Paired with an Audi motor I imagine it will work. I have a friend I sold a manual 99 boxster to and he plans on using a 2.7TT with a tiptronic. I told him he was crazy but he loves tinkering with tips.

[986 Boxster]

It all depends, if you plan on keeping the car forever, than to me it would not matter matching numbers, if not, then a lot of people like matching numbers when they are buying a car. They think something is not right with the car if it`s not matching numbers, I don`t know . That's a lot of money that you are putting into the car, so I`m assuming you are not planning on getting rid of the car anytime soon. I heard of someone that put in a used 2.7L motor + new clutch, etc, for about $12.000.00 at the Porsche dealer and then he couldn't get the car sold at all private, he was even losing money at his asking price but no one seem interested, he ended up trading it for something else.

[ike84]

To add to the comments regarding resale value...

Empirically I have noticed that bone stock cars are the highest valued in terms of resale. While the forum members are different, the majority of people just want a used porsche.

As an example, there was an amazingly modified 986 that included a 3.4l, gt3 suspension all around, and decked out interior. It was not a track car mind you, it was really well done and truly stylish. The car only had 60k miles I think (don't hold me to that) and only sold for 9K after being in the market for months! The market for 986's with aftermarket mods, done right or not, is very small. Hell, look at what happened with maytags car. I don't think anyone would argue against his knowledge base or ability to turn a wrench and still not even anyone on this forum would but his beloved. Sad face.

So my point is, if anyone is considering $20k for a new motor, consider just selling the car without a motor for $2k (which happens all the time) and spend $22k on a lightly used 987.2

Just my 2c

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[Radman]

If you mod the car, you need to be committed to it lol! I bought a 99 with the plan to have it keep me occupied for 5 years or so. It's fun, but I'm admittedly envious of my friends 2016 Cayman GT4. I don't need quite that much power, but I'd like to be less than 200hp away .

Emotions are an interesting thing. I bought the car with the idea of slightly upgrading the power but still buying another P-car down the road. Newer, "nicer", blah blah blah. Then I get this thing in my garage and I'm saying to myself I never realized just how beautiful of a car it is. Then I realized that it was made the month and year my wife and I were married. That's a sign if there ever was one. Now we're(notice it switched to we instead of I) planning to keep the car forever.

So, I've been looking at LNE, F6I, and now Audi swaps. It makes no financial sense, but emotions are senseless. And now I'm appreciating the simplicity of this car. A real cable for throttle control, no dual zone climate controls, not even 45k in options lol! The only thing I want to add to the interior is a CarPlay head unit and that's as much for safety as it is comfort/convenience.

So, much depends on how you view the car. Is it a temp toy, or a part of the family ?