Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2019, 09:24 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: California
Posts: 64
Should I or shouldn't I?

I think I know the answer, but I have my '98 in for a new clutch and need to decide if I need to add an IMS bearing to the work order. The independent shop I take it to is saying it's not necessary. I am torn. I bought this as an inexpensive car for fun and as a project to work on with my son. I have already spent a lot on much deferred maintenance and have replaced the entire suspension. I find it a little hard to justify the expense. I see in the stats that the dual row '98 bearings have a much lower failure rate than the later designs and I could rationalize the gamble. I know this has been discussed a million times, but I thank you for any thoughts.

Zibodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:34 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 177
Get it done. Yes, the dual-row bearings are much less likely to fail. And depending on the history of your car (has it been run consistently without long storage periods? has it been maintained regularly?) it may not be an issue that ever has a real chance of arising.
However, once you have the transmission out, the rest of the labor/parts for the IMSB swap is not all that much.
Additionally, if you ever sell your Porsche, we all know the first question any buyer is going to ask.
__________________
'97 - Silver (rebuilt/stripping)
'99 - Black (rebuilt/sold)
'01 S - Rainforest Green (daily)
'03 S - Orient Red (sold)
Fiddlebog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:37 AM   #3
Custom User Title Here
 
particlewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ft. Leonard Wood
Posts: 6,163
Garage
Absolutely not.

The failure rate on the dual row is so low, you are much more likely to lose the engine another way.
Don’t give into the scaredy crowd, like “Fiddlebog”.
particlewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:57 AM   #4
Artist, 986S tinkerer
 
NewArt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,821
I'm with PW here. Yes, it could happen. Or you could have a rod bolt failure, spun bearing, or a myriad of other things that could happen to any engine. Change your oil. Drive it.
__________________
James now has: 2008 987S 6 speed
Crashed: 2010 987.2 pdk in speed yellow!
Sold to a cool racer chick: 2004 986 S
YouTube channel: the PORSCHE as seen by NewArt
www.youtube.com/channel/UCohdrH2xHTklM1thxk0KKOQ?
NewArt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 10:03 AM   #5
Who's askin'?
 
maytag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,446
I just put a used '03 motor in my car, with 86k miles on it. I did NOT replace the IMS bearing. I just refuse to drink the koolaid, and succumb to the hysteria.

Fiddlebog, if a buyer passes on my car because the IMS isn't done, I don't want to sell to the anyway, because that personality will come see me to make good on any minor problem the car has fit the next 90 days. Not a buyer I want anything to do with.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
maytag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 10:06 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 177
I will note that I have not done the IMS on either of my Boxsters, nor do I intend to go out of my way to do so.
I also haven't had the need to drop the transmission, though.
__________________
'97 - Silver (rebuilt/stripping)
'99 - Black (rebuilt/sold)
'01 S - Rainforest Green (daily)
'03 S - Orient Red (sold)
Fiddlebog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 10:50 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,533
Only you can answer this question.

How will you feel if the IMS fails? How will you feel if after doing the IMS it fails for another reason? Do you have enough cash to replace the IMS? The motor?
mikefocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 11:11 AM   #8
Who's askin'?
 
maytag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
How will you feel if after doing the IMS it fails for another reason?
THIS question is the one which drove my decision NOT to replace the IMS this time.

Last motor, i took out a perfectly good bearing with 147k miles on it, and replaced it. 5000 miles later I lost the motor to something entirely unrelated.

How many "what-ifs" can I defend against? Where do I draw the line? I buy a 15-20yr-old car, with lots of miles, with unknown service history (sure, you may think documentation tells the story, but it's still a "box of chocolates").. there are literally DOZENS of things that are at least as likely (from a sheer statistical point of view) to take-out this car as the IMS is.

pi$$ on it. I left this one alone.
maytag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 01:05 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: California
Posts: 64
Wow! Quick response. OK no IMS changeout. I had another conversation with my mechanic and he says in addition to the low probability, there are a few diagnostics and early warning signs he can check for at this point which will give me a warm feeling. Thanks all.
Zibodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 02:16 PM   #10
There Is No Substitute.
 
rick3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,253
Garage
Everyone else beat me to it, not worth doing the IMS on a pre-'00 986. The chances of the dual row IMS failing are the same as any other car. My take on engine failure, is that I would rather save the money and "if" my engine ever fails upgrade to a 3.2L.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
rick3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 03:00 PM   #11
Registered User
 
piper6909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: PA
Posts: 1,531
I'm actually with Fiddlebog on this. While the tranny is out, might as well do it. I have a Tiptronic, so unless I have to replace the tranny for some reason I'm not going to bother with the IMS. My cost-to-risk ratio is too low.

But Mikefocke has the best answer.
piper6909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 03:14 PM   #12
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave View Post
Absolutely not.

The failure rate on the dual row is so low, you are much more likely to lose the engine another way.
Don’t give into the scaredy crowd, like “Fiddlebog”.
^^ What he says.^^

I am on engine #5. I have never replaced an IMSB and all of the previous 4 engines failed for other reasons than the IMSB (timing chain, lifter, crank bearing, and I haven't fully torn down #4 yet but its not IMSB).

If it made it this far, it will make it until something else in the engine breaks.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 03:58 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: SATX
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick3000 View Post
Everyone else beat me to it, not worth doing the IMS on a pre-'00 986. The chances of the dual row IMS failing are the same as any other car. My take on engine failure, is that I would rather save the money and "if" my engine ever fails upgrade to a 3.2L.
That's what I did ....put in a 183k 3.2 three years ago, still running strong ....
__________________
2001 Base with 2002 3.2 DIY swap 97 "short shift" tip "Joe Toth" aerodynamics, Z top, painted headlights.
2001 Boxster 5 speed
Turbodad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 04:01 PM   #14
Registered User
 
elgyqc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laval QC
Posts: 669
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by maytag View Post
... Last motor, i took out a perfectly good bearing with 147k miles on it, and replaced it...
I did the clutch on the Blue Boxster that I sold to a friend this spring, While the transmission was off I pulled the flywheel, then the IMSB flange (AFTER having locked the timing) and verified the IMSB. It turned smoothly and there was no play. I then pulled the seal off the bearing so that it would get direct oil lubrication. There was no grease in the bearing when I removed the seal. Put it all back together and it has been running fine since.
My logic and pictures here in post #60
sick of ims bearing
__________________
Grant
Arctic Silver 2000 Boxster S - bought with a broken engine, back on the road with the engine replaced
Green 2000 Boxster 5-speed and 1978 928 auto
1987 924S 5-speed (Sold) - Blue 2000 Boxster 5 spd (Sold)
elgyqc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 05:12 PM   #15
Registered User
 
piper6909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: PA
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgyqc View Post
I did the clutch on the Blue Boxster that I sold to a friend this spring, While the transmission was off I pulled the flywheel, then the IMSB flange (AFTER having locked the timing) and verified the IMSB. It turned smoothly and there was no play. I then pulled the seal off the bearing so that it would get direct oil lubrication. There was no grease in the bearing when I removed the seal. Put it all back together and it has been running fine since.
My logic and pictures here in post #60
sick of ims bearing
I've heard about pulling the seal off. I've also wondered about doing the European Parts Solutions procedure of punching a small hole on the other end of the IMS behind the oil pump so to send oil to the bearing. That is IF for some reason I need to remove my Tiptronic.
piper6909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 06:02 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,492
Just say no. The cars are too old to spend the big $$ for preventative maintenance.
Drive, enjoy, replace (car or motor).
dghii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 06:46 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbodad View Post
That's what I did ....put in a 183k 3.2 three years ago, still running strong ....
Lucky you

I'm still waiting for 3.4 upgrade, driving hard my 2.5 with original IMSB daily, currently at 91K miles.
__________________
1997 Boxster arctic silver/ red, XNE riveted mahogany/ leather steering wheel & 917-style wood shift knob, Ben’s short shifter, PSE, 996 TB, UDP, stereo/ center console delete, hardtop and speedster humps, daily driver rain or shine or snow!
Boxstard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 04:22 AM   #18
1998 Boxster Silver/Red
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: 92262
Posts: 2,915
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick3000 View Post
The chances of the dual row IMS failing are the same as any other car.
Everything I've read since I've owned my car says the dual-row is superior to the single.

Your source? Link?

Thank you.
__________________
1998 Porsche Boxster
Starter986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 04:51 AM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter986 View Post
Everything I've read since I've owned my car says the dual-row is superior to the single.



Your source? Link?



Thank you.

He means any other non-M96 engine car. ie agrees with you.
__________________
2001 Boxster S, TipTronic in Seal Grey aka "The Imp"
2001 TE50, ESS in (now) Grigio Titanio Matallizzato aka "The Golden child"
TrumpyAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 07:26 AM   #20
1998 Boxster Silver/Red
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: 92262
Posts: 2,915
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpyAl View Post
He means any other non-M96 engine car. ie agrees with you.
Gotcha. Thanks!

__________________
1998 Porsche Boxster
Starter986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page