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Old 07-13-2018, 09:29 AM   #1
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L&N Engineering

I recently bought an engine from L&N ,my original is out and Im buying what needs to be replaced .In the course of purchasing I called EPS European Parts Solution for a clutch .I tell the guy I bought an L&N engine and he starts yelling at me telling me theat L&N IMS has a higher failure rate than OEM. And EPS cylindrical roller is the only fix and he has 50 motor's that had L&N bearings go bad. He goes on to tell me that there is an article coming out to prove this and it makes me wonder is this why they had a sale on their motor's with only a 90 day warranty and to buy a 2year will cost me 5k. So now I'm thinking WTF....Did I get hosed I'm well over 10k with motor and replacement parts . Should I bite the bullet and put in a cylindrical roller bearing.Or cross my fingers.

Last edited by gabedrummin; 07-13-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:58 AM   #2
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Sounds like he's a good salesman. IMS bearing replacement has been discussed over and over again here for years, from all sides and with facts and BeSt guesses. My personal opinion is probably irrelevant, but documented facts should matter. Were these "50 motor's that had L&N bearings go bad" that he has installed correctly in a engine that didn't already have a failure? Was it actually the IMS bearing that failed or was it one of many other factors that caused the engine to fail. Are there counterfeit, cheap bearings being sold as LN and EPS? Probably.

I'm not reading about a lot of LN bearing failures here on the forum. Are they all being reported on the other forums? Are people being paid hush money to keep it quiet? Lately most of the engines that are reported failing here are not IMS failures.

My advice? Do some research rather than opinion surfing, then make whichever choice will give you peace of mind and enjoyment of the car.

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Old 07-13-2018, 10:07 AM   #3
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Their bearings do fail and have a very limited lifespan (4 years or 50k miles, according to LNE).

Most think that LNE are saviors of the M96 community that care about us all very much. I see them more as opportunistic profiteers, but that's just my personal opinion.


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Last edited by particlewave; 07-13-2018 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:43 AM   #4
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My guess is you could X/O an IMS bearing, with an OEM bearing, every four years, and not have any problems either. Even LNE's bearing less 'Solution' only buys you a 5 year warranty.

The cars have a few weak spots. If the gamble is too stressful, it will spoil the enjoyment of a very special car. Gather your facts, be confident in your decision, move forward.

I think PW's 'parasite' comment is a bit strong. They have several products available that are pricey, but very well made, i.e. spin on oil filter housing, magnetic drain plug. They appear to be genuine enthusiasts and attempt to service the marketplace accordingly. Do they deliberately pray on our collective fears, probably. Most companies are guilty of that business model.

I have spent zero $$$ with/for any of their products.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:05 AM   #5
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Particlewave What bearing do you think is best ? I really appreciate something other than this has been discussed for years . I did research and know I cant rebuild this motor for $8500.00 if I have to speed another 500 to have a bullet proof motor now is the time to do it.Motor only has 90 day warranty so I'm not losing anything by replacing the ceramic ball bearing with a cylindrical roller.I only wish more people would tell me what is best..! Having to replace in 5 years is not good.Any L&N motor owners out there?
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:14 AM   #6
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If it were my engine, it would get an EPS or RND roller bearing with direct oil feed.
That's just my opinion...and you know what they say about opinions.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by gabedrummin View Post
Having to replace in 5 years is not good.Any L&N motor owners out there?
Gabe, what about installing the IMS Solution, with engine oil fed and no moving parts?


PS, the reason for editing: just noticed that this is my post # 1,000

Last edited by Gilles; 07-13-2018 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:31 AM   #8
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Is LN opportunistic? Sure, but that's a good business model..finding an opportunity and making money from it. That being said, the next part of the model is to make a product that is superior and merging opportunity with reputation. I find myself having faith (hope?) that's what LN has done...based solely on no research or facts of my own. Lol.

As a skeptical bastard, I find myself questioning things sometime far too much...which leads to diminished faith and eventual worry. As a word of advice, don't overthink too much. Trust your research, opinions of others and eventually just your gut. If it all goes south from there, consider it a learning experience.

FWIW, the quoted "50 engines" just doesn't pass my smell test; sounds more like a random number pulled from the air....
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:37 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by gabedrummin View Post
and he starts yelling at me telling me theat L&N IMS has a higher failure rate than OEM. And EPS cylindrical roller is the only fix and he has 50 motor's that had L&N bearings go bad
That sounds like salemanship, if they were that bad and failed that much they would be out of business. They have 50 motors with failed LN bearings? I don't even think there have been 50 failures worldwide, let alone just 50 at this vendor.

I would be interested to see the article.

If you really want to resolve it once and for all, LN IMS Solution. That said, I am on just the regular dual row LN ceramic retrofit for the last 40,000 miles/5 years and it has been working out.

I though RND engines came with their own version of the roller bearing anyway and not the LN ceramic retrofit? So if the EPS guy says cylindrical roller bearings are the best, you might have one already

Roller Bearing IMS Retrofit Kit – RND Engines

There is no way that 50 of these have failed in the last few years since RND came out.
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:18 PM   #10
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I've been pretty impressed with LN products, but not so much that I've bought any. I simply put a high quality high temp single row back in to replace the failed one from my engine. Replaced the intermediate shaft with my modified version while I was in there. I do prefer the ball bearing over the roller as its design seems more tolerant of contamination, point versus line contact. That's purely speculation however.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by particlewave View Post
Their bearings do fail and have a very limited lifespan (4 years or 50k miles, according to LNE).

Most think that LNE are saviors of the M96 community that care about us all very much. I see them more as an opportunistic parasite, but that's just my personal opinion.
I went with the EPS unit. After seeing Jack on the PCA website fearmongering about the 4 stages of failure and that the first 2 you can't diagnose or see.... I started looking for other options. I think it's great that Flat6 came up with a solution but that video made me think of him as a used car salesman.

The dealer I purchased the car from was fixing the RMS on them so I thought why not replace the IMS while the engine is out. The bearing they took out looked new (48K miles, 2004 S).
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:13 PM   #12
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I put a dual row direct oil feed ims bearing in from Tunersmall.com in my 2000 S. Seemed to be a good product. No problems so far-installed last January. It is pretty much the same as the dof product from LN (not the "Solution"), just uses a different oil source.
I am currently putting in a LN Solution in my 2002 base. Paid about $500 more than the Tunersmall.com product although it comes with a spin on oil filter adapter which the Tunersmall.com product doesn't include. The "Solution" seems to be a stupidly simple idea. Makes me wonder why Porsche didn't choose that route. Interestingly, the LN warranty materials suggest that there is no coverage for a DIY installation.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:43 PM   #13
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I have been a faithful follower of Jake Raby since he 1st appeared on this forum about 10 years ago. I was astounded at how much ground breaking info he was giving away. When he posted in 2010 that he was going to teach a class on how to rebuild our engines & improve them in the process, I was the 4th person to sign up. I got to meet Charles Navarro there also as he taught a segment on lubrication. Both of these guys over engineer anything they are going to sell so they can under promise & over deliver. My $10K engine has a LN IMSB in it & I have no intention to ever touch it again, just maintain the engine as Jake has taught me using the oil he developed for it.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:55 PM   #14
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BYprodriver which oil would that be sir?
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:12 PM   #15
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BYprodriver which oil would that be sir?
Joe Gibbs/Driven DT40 for street driving and XP-9 for track (with a recent thread by Charles to go XP-6 if the oil temp is projected to go over a certain amount, 240F or something that seemed kind of low so I may be remembering it wrong, I think the thread was on rennlist)
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:44 PM   #16
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Just buy and install....

....the “IMS Solution”

I did two years ago. 26,000 miles later. All good.

Plain bearing. No moving parts. Simple is good.

My .02.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
Joe Gibbs/Driven DT40 for street driving and XP-9 for track (with a recent thread by Charles to go XP-6 if the oil temp is projected to go over a certain amount, 240F or something that seemed kind of low so I may be remembering it wrong, I think the thread was on rennlist)
Exactly, I think you are correct on the 240F too.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:47 PM   #18
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Let’s face it, it’s a BEARING and they fail. Now, we could continue to lament why Porsche did this, rather than stick with the mezger design in the first place, but that’s another discussion. I think looking at the IMS like any bearing is a good idea. Change it out on a clutch interval. It’s not particularly hard, the bearing is not terribly expensive. Too expensive for a simple bearing? Yes, but in the big scheme of things not so much. The LN products are overpriced IMO, kind of like a pharmaceutical. I appreciate the initial R&D to bring a product to the market, just fine, but at this stage of development, plus needing to buy a very expensive tool set the costs of the setup is a little nuts. Short of perhaps the “solution” the bearings used aren’t anything particularly special. And selling an oil for special use in their engines? Ok... yeah.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:49 PM   #19
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BYprodriver which oil would that be sir?
In your case you need LN's break in oil. BR something?, just follow LN's recommendations.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:43 AM   #20
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RND is selling off motors to make room in inventory for 9A1 inventory. The M96/M97 market is dropping in value. Sorry but we're getting thrown to the side for the newer toys
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