Lose Control For No Reason

[rock88hard]

I have had a '99 986 for about 2 weeks. I already notice much wear on the back tires. I can't smoke the things because I don't know if there is traction control or that it can be turned off. So I figured the alignment was bad. I think this has something to do with the following.
I was driving in the rain today and actually doing the speed limit of 65 mph. Out of nowhere the car started swerving left and right. I thought I was going to lose control and do a 360 with cars behind and beside me, the wheel was going all over the place. I slowed to 50 mph and still had problems. It didn't stop until I hit 30 mph. I think it has something to do with traction control, but I don't have a manual so my guess is as good as the next.
If I were not 25, I would have had a heart attack. I had a line of cars behind me when this happened and the whole way home cars were passing me also. All the while I am trying to keep the wheel centered.
ANY IDEAS?!?! I am scared as hell to drive the thing again.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

Sounds like one of two things, both related to your worn tires, not traction control. You were either Hydroplaning or hit some oil or grease. I'm guessing the former because the condition disappeared when you dropped below 30MPH. In this case, at 30MPH, your tires were rotating slowly enough to push the water out of the way rather than ride on top of it. With worn tires, there is insufficient tread left to channel the water away to the side and it's much easier to Hydroplane.

That said, what tires are you running? OEM Tires are Directional and have a different tread pattern on the outside than on the inside. This is specifically to aid in channeling the water away. Given the negative camber in the Boxster rear, aftermarket omni-directional tires will most likely not work as well. Probably not even noticeable in Dry conditions, but amplified in the Wet.

The tires are a very important component in the suspension and handling chracteristics of the car and are not as tolerant when worn as tires would be on say a Honda or Toyota. Also, all tires have a safe, useful life of only 4 years regardless of treadwear. This is because they harden with time and significantly lose grip once this happens, especially in the Wet.

Plan on replacement ASAP along with a Balance and Alignment. In the meantime, take it especially easy in the wet. FYI, Traction Control (as opposed to PSM) was available as an option on the '99 MY, it's option #222 and will be listed on the sticker inside the Hood. It is defeatable through a rocker switch on the central console labled TC (this switch will also light if the TC is ever engaged. If you don't have this switch, you do not have Traction Control. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[bigislandboxster]

Hi,
Pretty much what was already said....I had the same phenomenom a short while back, I was driving down the highway in a hard rain doing about the same speed as you, and the car was at times slightly out of control. Conditions were also windy as well, which made it even more so I suspect. About 60-70% wear on the rears, fronts were pretty good. I also had some cracked and loose underbody panels which were probably catching gusts of wind as well....I had Pirelli Rossos on mine, and they are generally not good in the rain even if they aren't worn.

Hydroplaning can be scary, I know what your saying. New tires should certainly help tremendously in this regard......

[denverpete]

P.S. - You can't "smoke the tires" because it's a '99 with about 200 hp. It's a sports car not a dragster. If you're interested in lighting up the tires I recommend a Mustang...

[rock88hard]

I am not interested in lighting up the tires. That was to help describe my issue for those with enough courtesy to help (which i really appreciate mnboxster and bigislandboxster) It was raining again today and believe it or not, I had to take it back out... back out to get the **************** scared out of myself again (a moth to the flame). So if it is oil maybe it's coming from the car itself?

I am getting a safety inspection tomorrow. When I find out what is going on I will post here to help anyone else who may have this problem. BTW I know it has 200 hp, i said i didn't have an owners manual. I didn't say I was without a brain. But thanks for you smart ass remark anyway pete.

Rock88, who is going to do your safety inspection? Can you measure your tread depth in 32's of an inch? New tires are about 10/32.

Welcome to the Forum!

[Houston C4S]

Rock88,

You seem to be rejecting some feedback from a couple of forum members
who took the time to reply to you.

Your query appears to come from someone who has little experience in
matters of the car. You come across as a teen with just enough knowledge
to be dangerous on the highway. Don't take this the wrong way -- there
certainly is not a thing in the world wrong with being a teen and I commend
you on your choice of cars.

By the way, my first one was a 1959 Bugeye Sprite and number two was
a Jaguar XKE. Both quite well used and, being British cars, needed a lot
of work. Which provided me with a lot of experience in all aspects of car
things. I highly recommend that everyone shoud have an old British car
and work on it themselves. (I'm kidding here)

But you criticize a member who recommended that if smoking the tires
is what you want a Mustang would be a better choice.

I think you might want to reread what you wrote earlier. Let me make
it easier on you:

"I can't smoke the things because I don't know if there is traction control or that it can be turned off. So I figured the alignment was bad. "

That makes no sense at all and even allowing for your apparent age with
regard to the way you structure your sentences, you show that you really
do need some guidance as to the way a car works.

I council that you pay attention to some of the folks here.

When they tell you that you are likely experiencing hydroplaning,
perhaps you should learn from them and not take it as a personal
criticism.

Trust me, and those who already told you, worn tires, especially
wide ones, and standing water are an invitation to disaster.

Get new tires, get it aligned if it needs it and cool it in heavy rain.

I, and others, do not want you to be spinning out of control into
anyone or anything.

Also, one last tidbit, go to driving school. At the very least,
join the Porsche Club and participate in some DE's (Driver's
Education). It's worth way more than it costs.

Especially at a young age -- learn how to do it right.

And this isn't adult BS -- I go to DE's and learn more each time.

Hang in there. You will be okay, just read, learn and drive smart.

Best,

- Mark


PS: If I am wrong about the age thing, please let me know.
I will need to get my antennae adjusted if that's the case.

[denverpete]

Originally Posted by rock88hard

I am not interested in lighting up the tires. That was to help describe my issue for those with enough courtesy to help (which i really appreciate mnboxster and bigislandboxster) It was raining again today and believe it or not, I had to take it back out... back out to get the **************** scared out of myself again (a moth to the flame). So if it is oil maybe it's coming from the car itself?

I am getting a safety inspection tomorrow. When I find out what is going on I will post here to help anyone else who may have this problem. BTW I know it has 200 hp, i said i didn't have an owners manual. I didn't say I was without a brain. But thanks for you smart ass remark anyway pete.

Hmmm. I guess I offended you, if so, I apologise.

You will note however that you mentioned you couldn't "smoke the things". And, you wouldn't be the first new Boxster owner to post here that the car doesn't really have the ability to do burn outs. I was serious, actually, about the Mustang. From experience I can say that the new ones can really light up the tires!

The oil that MN and BIB were referring to is on the highway not from your car. If it hasn't rained in awhile, the oil from the asphalt and other cars can create a bit of a slick when it first rains (prior to getting washed away). This is particularly true if the weather is really hot prior to the rainstorm. Arizona is notorious for this.

As MN and BIB mentioned, you most definately were hydroplaning. Check out Tire Rack online. You can view the differing characteristics of the tires (cornering, road noise, wet weather, longevity) along with reviews (usually not that helpful).

As to the cars that were flying along while you couldn't - again that could be old tires, or simply that the Boxster has much fatter tires than most cars. While this gives you a huge advantage in dry weather, it's most definately a disadvantage in wet weather. The large surface area of the tire actually pushes the water (or snow) in front of it. With a larger area, you have a better chance of "lift off" into hydroplaning. It also makes it more dangerous to turn since water (or snow) can build up on the inside of the tire and cause you to go into a straight skid. Skinny tires are actually much better in the rain and snow.

At the risk of being called a smart ass again (or worse), I will leave you with this bit of advice if you find yourself hydroplaning again: Completely let off the accelerator, do not use the brakes, and try to maintain a straight line. As your speed bleeds, the vehicle will eventually find a speed where it can again channel water under the tires and you will regain control.

I'm glad you're safe....

[arenared]

Rock88,

First, congrats on your Boxster.

A few words on your car/condition. The rears are wider than the front and therefore displace more water in the wet and more likely to hydroplane. Rears also wear about 2X the fronts, so keep an eye on rear treadwear which is pretty short. Next, the Boxster is mid-engine and does have a rear weight bias. This may be very different than other cars you may be used to. The rear weight bias will tend to fishtail more like a pendulum once you exceed its limits. Also because of the low polar moment of inertia (mid-engine), the car turns and spins fast. If you exceed the cars limits, you have to be on your toes, so to speak. Another thing compared to other cars you may have driven is that the Boxster's tires are wide and very low profile. That makes them especially sensitive to tire pressure and alignment. Rear toe is especially critical for stability in a Boxster.

Make sure you have decent tread left for the conditions you plan on driving in. Then, make sure you get a good alignment. Forget Sears, Speedy Lube, etc., and possibly the dealer. The factory alignments specs are very wide. If you can afford it, I would recommend going to a race-type shop that specializes in Porsches and knows Boxsters. If you tell them the type of driving you do, they can guide you with the specific alignment that you should run. You will probably have to pay $100 more, but it will be worth it. Because alignment is so critical, that is something you need to check fairly regularly (along with your tires).

Originally Posted by arenared

Rock88,

First, congrats on your Boxster.

A few words on your car/condition. The rears are wider than the front and therefore displace more water in the wet and more likely to hydroplane. Rears also wear about 2X the fronts, so keep an eye on rear treadwear which is pretty short. Next, the Boxster is mid-engine and does have a rear weight bias. This may be very different than other cars you may be used to. The rear weight bias will tend to fishtail more like a pendulum once you exceed its limits. Also because of the low polar moment of inertia (mid-engine), the car turns and spins fast. If you exceed the cars limits, you have to be on your toes, so to speak. Another thing compared to other cars you may have driven is that the Boxster's tires are wide and very low profile. That makes them especially sensitive to tire pressure and alignment. Rear toe is especially critical for stability in a Boxster.

Make sure you have decent tread left for the conditions you plan on driving in. Then, make sure you get a good alignment. Forget Sears, Speedy Lube, etc., and possibly the dealer. The factory alignments specs are very wide. If you can afford it, I would recommend going to a race-type shop that specializes in Porsches and knows Boxsters. If you tell them the type of driving you do, they can guide you with the specific alignment that you should run. You will probably have to pay $100 more, but it will be worth it. Because alignment is so critical, that is something you need to check fairly regularly (along with your tires).

Lots of good advice here! With regards to tire pressure, I can definitely echo that comment. On my big-a$$ 19's a 1/2 pound pressure difference makes a huge effect on the rears. Buy a good digital tire gage from the auto parts store.

[Silver]

I hope this doesn't come off in the wrong way, but it might actually be a good thing that you experienced some hydroplaning. I'm a huge advocate of finding the limits of your vehicle (and the state of your tires), and though being in the middle of the road with others around you is VERY VERY FAR from the ideal place and time, at least you were able to keep your head and bring the speed down until you were at a more comfortable and safe speed. It's okay that it freaked you out, but at least now you know what it feels like, and will be able to recognize the problem if it happens to you again.

I also agree with everything everyone else has said in regards to what you should do. New tires, mounting, balancing, etc.

[rock88hard]

Wow DenverPete, I feel like an ass. I thought you gave me smart poke there, sorry for that. I am 25 (glad i didn't have this as a teen), but I do have a short fuse sometimes and don't care to watch for proper grammar since I must do so at work all day.
Thank all of you for your input. I didn't realize how important the tires/alignment was. The dealer assured me that they service the boxster there and everything was "good-to-go" on it, so i assumed the alignment was good until 2 or 3 days before this happened when i noticed a pull.
I took the advice here and took her (the boxster) to the Porsche shop. They are giving her an alignment and tires. Kinda ****************ty that i spend so much there then turn around and spend another thousand and some a week or two later, because the dealer assured me that preventative measures like this have been taken (all cars receive a "safety inspection" her upon receiveing) I will post more about this dealership at www.FredMartinSucks.com :-) I have taken it to a Porsche dealership in Ohio name Armando's.

Thanks all... now to find a good owners manual and possibly a shop guide. I want to know more than what i learn on the Grand Turismo video game.

Tim

[denverpete]

No worries - I probably came off wrong.

P.S. - The only thing I learned from Gran Turismo is that real Porsches are WAAAAAY more expensive to maintain or fix if you crash....