Is it fair to negotiate ... - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

mfm22 · 09-19-2016, 06:09 PM

Looking for a Boxster & have small budget. Found a '99 with 55,000 miles well kept .
Current owner has it for ten years . In doing a quick inspection I noticed some overspray, car had some paint work - owner said when he bought it car fax showed an accident back in '02. Ok I can get by this , car drove well etc.

But the 800 lb gorilla in the room - ims not changed. Asking price is $10,500
Local shop that is a Porsche specialist can do bearing,rms & oil change for about $2100 (seems fair). My question is would it be fair to adjust price to $8500 assuming nothing else is discovered in the ppi ? I don't like to haggle but I would do the work if purchasing car. To pay asking price then lay out another $2100 seems a bit much for a 1999 non S

rexcramer · 09-19-2016, 06:28 PM

One man's opinion, 10.5k sounds high for a 99 with 55k on it. It would have to be in near perfect condition, one owner with a verifiable/documented maintenance history to warrant that price. (Based on my California experience)

Subtract in the fact that it has been tweaked in an accident. (Big Subtraction) Unless you are a really experienced home mechanic, I think you must pay an experienced Porsche Boxster Tech to do a thorough inspection of the car. If the current owner balks at that idea then walk. It will cost you $300+/- but, it will tell you the truth regarding the health of the car. All the forum can offer is conjecture.

Keep looking. Convertible selling season starts this time of year in the NE?

To answer your original question, Yes, negotiate your back side off.

mfm22 · 09-19-2016, 06:42 PM

I think I should let seller have an idea of my offer prior to the ppi. Don't want to waste our time or my $ doing inspection and not being close on price.

You are right about the time of year, it's starting to cool off . One owner cars command too high a premium here in NY . I don't have a problem with a few owners, my reasoning is a "new" owner usually cleans ,details , changes fluids etc .. Well that's what I'd do

dghii · 09-19-2016, 07:00 PM

Have you looked at the silver car in the classified (northeast)?
2001 S with documented LN IMS replacement, 56K miles...asking $10.5.

How bad you want the 99?

imon_2nd · 09-19-2016, 07:03 PM

There's no harm in telling the buyer their price is fine as long as the car has no serious issues. Make it clear that if the PPI turns up significant issues, like IMS not done, you will make an offer taking that into account. In my experience, some sellers will immediately say, "No, my price is firm as-is." More often than not, they say, "Sure, have it inspected and then we can talk about a deal."

mfm22 · 09-19-2016, 07:13 PM

I did see the silver 986. May be some other issues. Would rather pursue the S upstate NY but that's an older post may be sold

I know that the ims was not changed so it's a given . The current owner is in his 50's and has had it for 10 years . It has been driven responsibly. I let him drive and noticed his shift habits , I will say the car was very smooth riding and accelerating

I'm not looking for a garage queen ( had a few of them ) just want a mechanically sound driver He was saying how the car had not been driven in rain for the 10 years he has had it . I plan on using it

BirdDog · 09-19-2016, 07:50 PM

Just my 2 cents...

$10.5K seems maybe a bit high for a 99 base Boxster with 55K miles, especially seeing how it's had an accident and how it's now fall when prices on these cars tend to drop (said the guy who has spent over $34K on his 2001 S) LOL

IMS - it's a 99, so it'll have a dual row bearing which is less likely to fail. If a PPI shows no metal in the oil filter, I'd say you are probably ok (if there is metal in the filter, walk away). Me, I'm the paranoid type, so when they rebuilt my engine I had the IMS Solution put in.

With 55K you need to know if the water pump has ever been changed. How old are those tires? If over 5 yrs old you probably should factor in the cost of replacing them (and good ones aren't cheap).

Could be a great little car. I say go for it, but with your eyes open after a thorough PPI.

stelan · 09-19-2016, 08:12 PM

of course, offer them 7k - 8k because all the things you need to do to it, (being a 99 is probably the best year in terms of IMS)

thstone · 09-19-2016, 08:52 PM

An IMSB retrofit is really an insurance policy to mitigate the risk of a worst case scenario (because so few cars actually have a failure). If the failure rate was 80%, then every car would get the replacement, but at 1% failure, very few cars will actually get the replacement and some would argue that a $2000 investment to protect a $5000 engine is an awfully expensive insurance premium.

Everyone has a differing profile for risk so while you might view the IMS retrofit as a must-have (and value it accordingly), others might view it as a ridiculous waste of money (and value it accordingly). The bottom line is that there is no right answer - everyone is welcome to their own risk-comfort level.

With all of this being said, you can negotiate for any reason you like and the owner has the option to either negotiate or turn you down. Luckily, its still a free country. For now.

SteelStroke · 09-19-2016, 08:53 PM

Watch Neil_b's video on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lv4V232Bx8

thstone · 09-19-2016, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfm22

The current owner is in his 50's and has had it for 10 years . It has been driven responsibly. I let him drive and noticed his shift habits...

Did you consider the owner's son who drove the car around at constant redline when his dad let him borrow the car because the owner never drove it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfm22

He was saying how the car had not been driven in rain for the 10 years he has had it .

Three Rules of Used Car Buying;
1.Never believe anything that a seller says unless its backed up in writing.
2. Always assume the worst.
3. See #1

PaulE · 09-20-2016, 10:58 AM

If you buy this car and do the IMS and RMS, at 55,000 miles you may also end up replacing the clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing, maybe the flywheel too or at least have it resurfaced. If he has owned it for 10 years does he have the service records - have the water pump, AOS, serpentine belt, spark plugs and coil packs ever been changed? And how long ago for each. Also how often has the brake fluid been changed for both the brakes and the clutch?

If you're negotiating in a friendly and reasonable manner there is no reason to not make offers and see what will stick. If you're on a budget, the best maintained and cared for car out there might cost a little more up front and be way cheaper in the long run.

There are lots of 986 Boxsters and Boxster S cars for sale, but as they say you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince. In addition to local classifieds, Craigslist and Autotrader, etc. take a look at the classifieds here, at Porsche Club of America and Excellence Magazine. The independent garage you would have do the PPI on this car may have a customer or two that have Boxsters for sale.

Good luck and let us know what you end up buying!

JFP in PA · 09-20-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfm22

Looking for a Boxster & have small budget. Found a '99 with 55,000 miles well kept .
Current owner has it for ten years . In doing a quick inspection I noticed some overspray, car had some paint work - owner said when he bought it car fax showed an accident back in '02. Ok I can get by this , car drove well etc.

But the 800 lb gorilla in the room - ims not changed. Asking price is $10,500
Local shop that is a Porsche specialist can do bearing,rms & oil change for about $2100 (seems fair). My question is would it be fair to adjust price to $8500 assuming nothing else is discovered in the ppi ? I don't like to haggle but I would do the work if purchasing car. To pay asking price then lay out another $2100 seems a bit much for a 1999 non S

These days, negotiating around the IMS replacement is fairly standard. In a PPI, any items that require current or future attention are fair game in the negotiations.

mfm22 · 09-20-2016, 02:41 PM

I guess it's best to wait for one that has been "properly sorted out".
But how many of us are that rational !!

If I hadn't owned one I would not bother with a car with known issues (potential issues)
But having driven one for a year I know how nice and sticky these rigs are

Most recently had a Miata - fun car , bolster was - exciting !

mmassey0125 · 09-20-2016, 05:26 PM

Here is my two cents.
Wait for an S. Spend the extra $10,000 on a 987. I owned a 2001, bought it for $10,000, had it 2 years and spent another $10,300 on repairs, tires, and new top (plastic window cracked 4 months after I bought it). Finally traded it on an '06 S that is loaded, sport seats, bose stereo, sport mode, etc had it over a year and it hasn't cost me a dime. As a bonus you can buy extended warranties on the newer models that are reasonably priced so you don't have to worry about the ims, or anything else for that matter. And finally, the extra horses are definitely noticeable (especially in sport mode). If you are using it for a driver you want to drive it, not worry when next it would give you problems. Good luck.

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