Ethanol

[dbear61]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

1. Gas with 10% ethanol makes less power than normal gas, and decreases fuel mileage accordingly.
2. Gas with ethanol in entrains water more easily; the entrained water corrodes everything in the fuel system.
3. Gas with ethanol in it is less stable than normal gas, and can actually striate in the system without additional additives to keep it mixed.

+1 on all three points, except I think point 2 JFP means "retain". Gas and water don't mix, but alcohol and water do. So the Ethanol blended fuel can retain water and separate from the oil-based gas. But points 2 and 3 aren't a concern unless the same fuel is sitting in your system for several months. Normal driving and refueling every week or two will only give you problem #1.

The only gas within 50 miles of me is 10% Ethanol, all 3 grades: 87, 89 and 93. I only use 93. I get 18-19 mpg combined city/hwy driving and max out at about 24 on the highway. For the Winter, I add Stabil on the last fill-up and let it run for 15 minutes to work through the whole system.

DBear

[BIGJake111]

Ethanol isn't terrible but it is all around sad as it really is a baptist and bootlegger type situation. The bootleggers stand out protesting with the baptist for no alcohol sales on Sunday, just so that the bootleggers can be the ones selling. Big Ag bolsters up and weak environmental claims about ethanol even though by the time they emit carbon from farming enough corn to put in our gas tanks and transporting it were no better off not to mention in many cases destroying land to increase field sizes and utilizing biomass that could go overseas to help feed nations where people starve.

[Xpit77]

Shell Vpower here in Ontario has no Ethanol.

[husker boxster]

A very high percentage of corn (maybe 70-80%) that is raised is not used for direct human consumption (ie corn on the cobb, Green Giant canned corn, etc). It's called seed or dent corn and it's not edible. Dent corn is used in lots of food products as high fructose corn syrup.

Farmers use lots of land that wasn't farmed in the past because they have to make up for the land they lose to urban expansion. Plus they grow more per acre now than they did in the past. With the advent of all the massive machinery, farmers can farm more land than in the past, so there are fewer farmers needed and former farmsteds can be plowed over and used as farm land.

When it comes to ethanol, the real issue is how much energy it takes to create the ethanol that is mixed with gasoline. It takes more energy to create the blend than is saved by using it. But they use natural gas to create it, which is "unlimited". It's like all the smarties in their electric cars that use coal to create their electricity. Without govt subsidies, creating ethanol would not be financially feasible. But the govt sees it as a chance to con people into thinking they're saving 10% of a finite commodity. The farmers are happy because they have an additional mkt for their product, which drives the price of their product up. The ethanol plants get money from the govt. Once everyone involved gets on the dole, it's hard to take it away. These people vote. Recall this was an issue before the IA caucus. But the IA winners pandered to the people and the subsidies remain.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by Xpit77

Shell Vpower here in Ontario has no Ethanol.

I used some vpower for the first time on the way back, the pump had the 10% warning on it but I don't know if that applied to all fuel grades, regardless with 5 gallons of vpower in the tank it ran like scalded dog on the on ramp. Butt dyno said more power and the car revved faster. Brain says marketing is powerful lol.

[dbear61]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

Once everyone involved gets on the dole, it's hard to take it away. These people vote. Recall this was an issue before the IA caucus. But the IA winners pandered to the people and the subsidies remain.

Except Ted Cruz won in IA, and he said before the caucus that he opposed the subsidy. Maybe IA paid IN voters to pick Trump?

DBear

[husker boxster]

Yes, thank you for the correction. Remembered Slick Ted won but "misremembered" he was against the subsidy (it's been a LONG political season). Subsidies always make politics interesting, but nothing ever changes. regardless of who wins. They just pander for votes and then forget all about it once they're elected.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by dbear61

+1 on all three points, except I think point 2 JFP means "retain". Gas and water don't mix, but alcohol and water do. So the Ethanol blended fuel can retain water and separate from the oil-based gas. But points 2 and 3 aren't a concern unless the same fuel is sitting in your system for several months. Normal driving and refueling every week or two will only give you problem #1.

The only gas within 50 miles of me is 10% Ethanol, all 3 grades: 87, 89 and 93. I only use 93. I get 18-19 mpg combined city/hwy driving and max out at about 24 on the highway. For the Winter, I add Stabil on the last fill-up and let it run for 15 minutes to work through the whole system.

DBear

No, I meant exactly what I said: entrain: transitive verb. 1 : to draw along with or after oneself. 2 : to draw in and transport within a fluid.

And items 2 & 3 also become problematic from repeated long term dynamic exposure (driving) as well as static exposure, (storage) as the excess available water creates acids from degrading the fuel additives, resulting in both corrosion and fuel degradation build up.

Fuels containing ethanol have a higher mositure content right out of the station pumps than non ethanol fuels, so the process is already underway before you even buy it.