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Old 06-07-2016, 05:18 PM   #1
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Ethanol

Due to a bootleggers and the baptist type relationship between the environmentalist and agriculture lobbyist, we all happily pump corn into our Porsche's at many gas stations. Some stations offer ethanol free but it's usually only 87 octane. My local station 5 feet from the house luckily offers 93 octane ethanol free with a great additive blend. However I will be traveling tomorrow and will need to fill up elsewhere and will likely not get a hold of ethanol free fuel.

My question is how many of you use ethanol and how much would it hurt the car? I know they run fine on it, but I've heard it's harder on cars if they are adjusting to it for the first time.

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Old 06-07-2016, 05:41 PM   #2
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Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:48 PM   #3
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the maximum ethanol content is about 10% if I remember ?

Don't worry about it, you'll be fine
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:11 PM   #4
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It won't hurt the car. Neither of you will notice.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:18 PM   #5
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Grassroots Motorsports did a test on different fuel types, and the 10% ethanol actually made more power than straight gas
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/fuel-truth/
I'd be most worried if your car sat for a while with ethanol in plastic lines.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:37 PM   #6
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My experience has been if you have a newer car and use ethanol regularly, there won't be any problems. But if you've never run ethanol in an older car, it will loosen up any sludge at the bottom of your tank and said sludge will work its way thru your system until it finds a place to lodge. Bad things happen at that point.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:16 PM   #7
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Additives found at stations like Chevron and 76 help control the damaging effects of ethanol. Both the wifes WRX and my Box are usually fueled at stations that offer additives. However there is only one station in my area, that Im aware of, that offers ethanol free. Since its usually around $10 a gallon and only 87 octane I dont run it.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:44 PM   #8
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Additives found at stations like Chevron and 76 help control the damaging effects of ethanol. Both the wifes WRX and my Box are usually fueled at stations that offer additives. However there is only one station in my area, that Im aware of, that offers ethanol free. Since its usually around $10 a gallon and only 87 octane I dont run it.


Is it really 10 dollars a gallon?

Ethanol free 87 is kinda common here and usually about the same price as 91 with. 93 without at the station I buy is usually 40 cents more than 87, there was a period I got the 93 ethanol free for less than 2 dollars a gallon.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:30 AM   #9
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Hello,

over here in Germany we have no fuel without ethanol.

Our normal 95 or 98 ROZ fuel has 5% ethanol added. It's called E5.
There is also fuel 95 ROZ with 10% enthanol add. It's called E10.
And some fuel stations offer E85, which means 85% ethanol. But this is for special E85 engines with special fuel lines.

You don't get fuel without ethanol over here in Germany.

There are no problems with E5 or E10 for the 986. Porsche approval for german E10 fuel:
Porsche Informationen zur E10-Eignung - Porsche Deutschland

Don't know how german fuel is different from US fuel in detail.

Regards, Markus
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:22 AM   #10
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1. Gas with 10% ethanol makes less power than normal gas, and decreases fuel mileage accordingly.
2. Gas with ethanol in entrains water more easily; the entrained water corrodes everything in the fuel system.
3. Gas with ethanol in it is less stable than normal gas, and can actually striate in the system without additional additives to keep it mixed.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:07 AM   #11
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So, it sounds like it's not that big of an issue if the car doesn't sit. Ethanol can have its benefits, if the car was designed for it that is.

Overall though mandating ethanols presence everywhere is a real shame, it's worse for reliability, the environment, the federal budget, gas mileage, and in most cases performance.

The only people who benefit from gov mandated ethanol fuel are Iowa caucus corn farmers and misinformed environmentalist. (It's not worth the extra farm equipment, land, transportation of corn, and cars filling up more often, for no real change in emissions in the cars end, just a slightly smaller dependence on fossil fuel.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:19 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Smallblock454 View Post
over here in Germany we have no fuel without ethanol.

Our normal 95 or 98 ROZ fuel has 5% ethanol added. It's called E5.
There is also fuel 95 ROZ with 10% enthanol add. It's called E10.
And some fuel stations offer E85, which means 85% ethanol. But this is for special E85 engines with special fuel lines.

You don't get fuel without ethanol over here in Germany.

There are no problems with E5 or E10 for the 986. Porsche approval for german E10 fuel:
Porsche Informationen zur E10-Eignung - Porsche Deutschland

Don't know how german fuel is different from US fuel in detail.

Regards, Markus
What about Aral Ultimate 102 fuel? Does it contain ethanol? When i use my 993 turbo in Germany I always try to find an Aral petrol station.

In Sweden we have 5% ethanol in general in 95 and 98 octane fuel. Shells V-Power also contain ethanol and is not real V-Power like it use to be. Shells petrol stations here is owned by finish ST1.

There are only a few refinery´s so I guess all fuel are more or less from the same places regardless what petrol station you use. It´s all branding and marketing in the end with few exceptions if we talk about the Swedish petrol market. Can´t talk for the rest of the world. But my guess it´s the same everywhere.

I read that plastic tanks on motorcycle has suffered when exposed to 10% ethanol fuel on american forums. They deforms when exposed. But it does not seem to be a problem with the 5% fuel. I have not head of any case here in Sweden where it´s been a problem. I won´t be filling up my Ducatis or 993 turbo with 10% ethanol fuel. Thats for sure. Impossible to avoid the 5% ethanol containment unfortunately. For longtime storage I guess you could always use alkrylate fuel. It does not contain ethanol.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:36 AM   #13
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1. Gas with 10% ethanol makes less power than normal gas, and decreases fuel mileage accordingly.
2. Gas with ethanol in entrains water more easily; the entrained water corrodes everything in the fuel system.
3. Gas with ethanol in it is less stable than normal gas, and can actually striate in the system without additional additives to keep it mixed.
Hello JFP in PA,

everything you tell is right, but it is not a problem to use E5 or E 10 if you go for a journey and it is only E5 or E10 available.

The fuel system of the 986 is able to handle E10 without getting harmed. Please see Porsche approval above.

Found a more detailed information on ethanol fuel on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

---

Hello Robert993TT,

the german government decided that every fuel you can buy in Germany has to contain an amount of bio fuel in the year of 2006: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biokraftstoffquotengesetz E10 was introduced in Germany in 2011.

Aral says they use Bio-Ether instead of Bio-Ethanol for Aral Ultimate 102: Übersicht der Kraftstoffsorten | Unsere Kraftstoffe | Kraftstoffe und Preise | Aral

Ether: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ether

I'm not a chemist. Ether is made from alcohol and sulfuric acid while split off water. So it seems to be the better choice. They've used Ether in the past to get better knock resistance. But it was more expensive than Benzol, Tuluol or Xyol.

And as said, Porsche officially approves E10 for their cars built since 1947. So i see no big issues in using E5 for a journey to Germany.

Regards, Markus

PS: By the way, the guys that work at Porsche always use the cheapest fuel for their Porsche company cars when they're at the fuel station. They say that the car has to handle it.

Last edited by Smallblock454; 06-08-2016 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:33 AM   #14
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I've heard that older cars, like the SC, etc. can have problems.

The rubber lines are not compatible w/ ethanol.

I used it, though, in mine, with no issues for years. (25 miles to the nearest E-free gas).
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:56 AM   #15
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Hello JFP in PA,

everything you tell is right, but it is not a problem to use E5 or E 10 if you go for a journey and it is only E5 or E10 available.

The fuel system of the 986 is able to handle E10 without getting harmed. Please see Porsche approval above.

Found a more detailed information on ethanol fuel on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
Not in the near term, but longer term is more questionable. Porsche, like many others, use mild steel for their fuel lines, injector rails, etc. Several shops have reported in the trade press of encountering these mild steel components starting to corrode from the inside out. We have seen this on a couple of early 986's in the shop.

So while it is "approved", it may not be ideal, a lot like their oil of choice.
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:01 AM   #16
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..:

I read that plastic tanks on motorcycle has suffered when exposed to 10% ethanol fuel on american forums. They deforms when exposed. But it does not seem to be a problem with the 5% fuel. I have not head of any case here in Sweden where it´s been a problem. I won´t be filling up my Ducatis or 993 turbo with 10% ethanol fuel. Thats for sure. Impossible to avoid the 5% ethanol containment unfortunately. For longtime storage I guess you could always use alkrylate fuel. It does not contain ethanol.
The nylon Arcebis used for the tanks on Ducs and KTMs in the past, absorbed the water that precipitates out of the gas. The swelling deforms the tanks.
KTM tanks grow in length and become very hard to put back on the bike, making modified rear tank mounts a must. It can also give a mumps look to the paint.

I hate having to put my tank back on my SD

Luckily not a problem on cars...
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:40 AM   #17
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Where I live (Houston area) there is no non-ethanol gas. Period. For many years. Closest station is 90+ miles away.
I run it in everything: new cars, old tractors, generators, lawn equipment, boats. Have never had a fuel related issue. Ever.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:27 AM   #18
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Due to a bootleggers and the baptist type relationship between the environmentalist and agriculture lobbyist, we all happily pump corn into our Porsche's at many gas stations. Some stations offer ethanol free but it's usually only 87 octane. My local station 5 feet from the house luckily offers 93 octane ethanol free with a great additive blend. However I will be traveling tomorrow and will need to fill up elsewhere and will likely not get a hold of ethanol free fuel.

My question is how many of you use ethanol and how much would it hurt the car? I know they run fine on it, but I've heard it's harder on cars if they are adjusting to it for the first time.
Highly doubt it's really 93 octane. Probably closer to 91.

Our cars are built to run 10% ethanol no problem.

I'd rather run 93 octane with 10% ethanol than 91 octane without ethanol (which can be found is some areas like northern Wisconsin).
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:22 AM   #19
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The cars run just fine on 91 RON.
Out here its all 91 at the pump
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:37 PM   #20
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The cars run just fine on 91 RON.
Out here its all 91 at the pump
Same up here. 91 across the prairies but 94 is available in BC and Ontario.

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