Calling Out Pedro Bonilla!

[mipstien]

Particle isn't questioning Pedro as a person. He is just saying that his wording is deceitful and misleading. These 2 things are not mutually exclusive here.

[jb92563]

I respect both Particlewave and PPBON, one does work for others out of the goodness of his heart and the other is trying to run a business to survive and also does many things above and beyond other vendors, so both are openly sharing their enthusiasm and knowledge with us forum members.

For that we are all grateful and can accept each for just following their nature.

No need to be harsh about it, but if there are some value added features of the Pedro version I'd love to hear about it, otherwise I can't fault a vendor for collecting useful tools for specialty cars on his site and charging an average price for those that don't want to search high and low for the absolute best deal.

So with a cheapo OBDII reader at $30 and the Durametric at $287 we have this TechnoOBDII at $199.

A comparison of features between these 3 would be just what we need to make our own educated decisions so we can buy the right tool for the job.

I almost hate to mention it, but in the spirit of competition and capitalism, perhaps evaluating some of the Knockoff products would be useful as well since there is a lot of misinformation about what they can and cannot do.

As far as marketing claims go, I stopped believing in all that Jibber Jabber when I was 8 and had saved up 1,000's of Popsicle Pete coupons so I could get a really cool gift.
Now I only judge a products claims on consumer reports which is why a friendly forum like this is so awesome.

[78F350]

Re-branding costs money. Personal customer support costs time and adds value. The statements in his forum may be a bit overblown for my taste, but that's marketing. Hardly constitutes fraud or an attempt to rip anyone off imho.
Anyone here have one of these? Is there ANY difference from the generic product? I see iCarsoft PORII selling for a bit over $190 on Amazon and it has a bad review of the seller's customer service.
Thanks PW for all you contribute to the forum, but this crusade may not be worth your effort. Maybe go on decaf for a few days, then read through it all again.

[JayG]

I am not passing judgement one way or another on this topic other than the way Pedro promoted it MAY have been a little misleading.

First of all, Particlewave DOES NOT sell replacement headlights. He has graciously provided a service to install them in your lights should you not want to do them yourself and has posted very detailed instructions including his learned tips and tricks. The projectors you are thinking about are manufactured by Nine8Six.

Second, if you read Pedro's "Ad", it states that he is looking for buyers so he can can do a bulk purchase.

Third, as someone that works for a company that does re-branding on some of their products, I am somewhat familiar with the re-branding process. Pedro is buying the units at a discount, so his profit should be more than just the difference from what he sells them for to what "retail" is from the manufacturer. That is how re-branding works, you negotiate a price with the manufacturer and go from there. I highly doubt he is paying retail and marking it up from there. Again, that is why he was has asking for firm orders from people. His exact wording was "I'll need a firm order - no promises" That right there is saying he is looking it buy a quantity at a discount and sell them at a markup with little or no risk, nor any inventory carrying cost

If Pedro was selling then at the same price as the manufacturer, I don't think this thread would have happened at all. Instead, Pedro chose to mark it up over retail and maybe mislead a little about its capabilities and definitely mislead about who developed it and what it was.

I do think that Pedro does generally provide good and helpful information on his website and from what I have read from others is a good guy that is more than willing to help others at no cost to them.

Is he or anyone entitled to sell whatever they want at any price, absolutely! Do you have to buy it, no. In this case, IMHO, he did get caught (?) maybe taking advantage of some that are not as well informed. His response was also poor and perhaps he could have nipped this in the bud with a better response.

IMHO ParticleWave saw something he felt was wrong and taking advantage of people and pointed it out. Don't shoot the messenger

[papasmurf]

Originally Posted by JayG

If Pedro was selling then at the same price as the manufacturer, I don't think this thread would have happened at all. Instead, Pedro chose to mark it up over retail and maybe mislead a little about its capabilities and definitely mislead about who developed it and what it was.

IMHO ParticleWave saw something he felt was wrong and taking advantage of people and pointed it out. Don't shoot the messenger

Icarsoft or whatever brand it was, for all we know were the first to the party to "brand" the product and bring it to market...do we know they developed it?

PW went far beyond just stating his feelings about the product when he started questioning his business practices (if you do not sell something for a profit...why sell at all?) and continued on with his comments about the light kits and products he thought were inferior....that is where it crossed into some sort of personal beef.

People make mistakes...can you fault Pedro when PW cannot see his own?

[JayG]

Originally Posted by papasmurf

Icarsoft or whatever brand it was, for all we know were the first to the party to "brand" the product and bring it to market...do we know they developed it?

PW went far beyond just stating his feelings about the product when he started questioning his business practices (if you do not sell something for a profit...why sell at all?) and continued on with his comments about the light kits and products he thought were inferior....that is where it crossed into some sort of personal beef.

People make mistakes...can you fault Pedro when PW cannot see his own?

there is a big difference between "making a profit" and gouging. His point on $200 HID upgrade kits is very valid. You can buy similar kits all over the place for well under $100. Hell, there are places that will sell them around $100 installed! Sorry, but that is price gouging

[Frontpage]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Personal vendetta? You're kidding, right?

As far as helping others on this forum, that's about all I do. The reason he was called out is because he's had more than a month to reply to considerate and polite inquiries about the rebranded iCarsoft, but chose to ignore them.

You keep defending the tactics discussed, mentioning the markup issue, but completely ignore the real issue that I'm addressing: purposeful deceit by one of our members for the sole selfish purpose of making a profit off of unsuspecting owners.
Therefore, you have been deemed unworthy of future response since you have shown that protecting the interests of those seeking to profit from ignorance are more important than helping our community.

Great news...the retired, boy-genius PM'd me from his van down by the river.

Seems he doesn't handle criticism very well, especially when his true motives are exposed.

[Fintro11]

Originally Posted by JayG

I am not passing judgement one way or another on this topic other than the way Pedro promoted it MAY have been a little misleading.

First of all, Particlewave DOES NOT sell replacement headlights. He has graciously provided a service to install them in your lights should you not want to do them yourself and has posted very detailed instructions including his learned tips and tricks. The projectors you are thinking about are manufactured by Nine8Six.

Second, if you read Pedro's "Ad", it states that he is looking for buyers so he can can do a bulk purchase.

Third, as someone that works for a company that does re-branding on some of their products, I am somewhat familiar with the re-branding process. Pedro is buying the units at a discount, so his profit should be more than just the difference from what he sells them for to what "retail" is from the manufacturer. That is how re-branding works, you negotiate a price with the manufacturer and go from there. I highly doubt he is paying retail and marking it up from there. Again, that is why he was has asking for firm orders from people. His exact wording was "I'll need a firm order - no promises" That right there is saying he is looking it buy a quantity at a discount and sell them at a markup with little or no risk, nor any inventory carrying cost

If Pedro was selling then at the same price as the manufacturer, I don't think this thread would have happened at all. Instead, Pedro chose to mark it up over retail and maybe mislead a little about its capabilities and definitely mislead about who developed it and what it was.

I do think that Pedro does generally provide good and helpful information on his website and from what I have read from others is a good guy that is more than willing to help others at no cost to them.

Is he or anyone entitled to sell whatever they want at any price, absolutely! Do you have to buy it, no. In this case, IMHO, he did get caught (?) maybe taking advantage of some that are not as well informed. His response was also poor and perhaps he could have nipped this in the bud with a better response.

IMHO ParticleWave saw something he felt was wrong and taking advantage of people and pointed it out. Don't shoot the messenger

I was trying to think of a response last night and this takes the words out of my mouth!

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by Timco

Do you or this Pedro guy own any cats? If so, I'd like to weigh in......

Timco, you have a way of lowering the rhetoric temperature like no one else.

Now about that rear fog light issue . . . . .

[fridsten]

Seems like Pedro explained in another thread. This actually is a further development of the iCarsoft product.

Skickat från min HTC One M9 via Tapatalk

[particlewave]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

As I stated, I fully encourage everyone to gather all information available to make an informed decision.

I certainly could have approached it differently, but as I said, I tried the nice and polite approach but he chose to flat out ignore my questions. So, I started this thread...

Timco - I'm sorry that you're pissed that I'm retired, but you can be, too. Just do a little reading everyday on investing. Anyone willing to learn can do it. I wasn't bragging, simply replying to a personal attack by papasmurf suggesting that I know nothing about economics. That's kind of my bread and butter.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Thanks for the replies, guys.

As I stated, I fully encourage everyone to gather all information available to make an informed decision.

I certainly could have approached it differently, but as I said, I tried the nice and polite approach but he chose to flat out ignore my questions. So, I started this thread...

Timco - I'm sorry that you're pissed that I'm retired, but you can be, too. Just do a little reading everyday on investing. Anyone willing to learn can do it. I wasn't bragging, simply replying to a personal attack by papasmurf suggesting that I know nothing about economics. That's kind of my bread and butter.

Maybe I'm wrong, but where is your website helping out fellow Boxster owners?

I believe you picked a fight with the wrong guy, Pedro has done quite a bit to help out the Boxster community, my 2 cents.

[particlewave]

Here's your change, coreseller ($0.02).

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Here's your change, coreseller ($0.02).

That's about the answer I expected...........

[particlewave]

All I did was put the information out there. If you want to defend a liar, that's your decision. I have no beef with him, I just don't like liars.

I've said all I wanted to say on the subject. You defenders can keep the posts coming because every time you do, you promote my original post and help others through exposure. Not many read past the first post, anyway.

Thanks!

[coreseller]

You've quite a ways to go before you should be at "the big boy table".

My 2 cents since you tossed them back my way.


My Only Edit...............I don't have a dog in this fight at all but Particlewave, the way in which you chose to make this dispute with Pedro public Really Sux, it is VERY unbecoming regardless of what you say your reasons are.

[dghii]

PW,
I'm considering purchasing a new Boxster but all the dealers I visit quote prices for the EXACT same car. How can that be fair?

I'd appreciate it if you'd go give them crap for me.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by nicecar

What about his website? No charge for all that free help. Also I was at Sebring last year and I was talking to a random person that lived in his area. I asked if he new Pedro?He lit up and said oh yea!When I first got the car and moved here I had an after hour problem and Pedro opened up and helped me for at least 2 hours and insisted NO CHARGE. Did you know he only works on 1 car at a time. Maybe he said those things out of excitement and he truly was working on it. Pedro does not strike me as the deceitful type. Call him he will answer. No dodging calls or screening. I know where he is and what he looks like. Particle wave......I feel you have to much time on your hands. Get whatever part you want from Pedro and I will pay the difference. With all the ripoff sites find another to point fingers at. I will buy the tool from Pedro but if I tell him I only need it for 1 time he would just loan it. This is my first and only Forum, never did like all the trash that gets talked from a keyboard somewhere in the U.S. Shoot, Particle doesnt even list a state.

Retirement is about perspective.

He retired to MO. Heck, my family out there could retire on spare change found at the park when land is $5k / acre.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Thanks for the replies, guys.

As I stated, I fully encourage everyone to gather all information available to make an informed decision.

I certainly could have approached it differently, but as I said, I tried the nice and polite approach but he chose to flat out ignore my questions. So, I started this thread...

Timco - I'm sorry that you're pissed that I'm retired, but you can be, too. Just do a little reading everyday on investing. Anyone willing to learn can do it. I wasn't bragging, simply replying to a personal attack by papasmurf suggesting that I know nothing about economics. That's kind of my bread and butter.

Or I can move to MO. But I would rather live in other places, so I may need to work a few more years. We are invested, thanks. Why would I be pissed about some internet nobody again? It's annoying, not upsetting.

[stelan]

Wow, particlewave and Pedro have been very helpful to me, perhaps not directly but reading some of their diy's, like the multiple stuff in Pedro's website, or the keyless entry hack or headlight stuff from particlewave.

I hope that everything resolves for the good of everybody around here as we need you guys both.