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Old 04-21-2016, 10:24 AM   #1
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2002 S first oil change since IMS upgrade

2002 S 40,000 miles, first oil change (4,000 miles, one year) since IMS DOF upgrade, parts kit from Tuners Motorsports. Filter clean and filtered oil through medium mesh filter, oil clean.

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Old 04-21-2016, 01:11 PM   #2
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2002 S first oil change since IMS upgrade

Nice! Congrats. Having the same DOF system (the Pedro version), I've had the same result. I'm confident the IMSB issue will not affect my car.


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Old 04-21-2016, 02:30 PM   #3
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Have the same DOF installed in mine. Indy recommends it after stopping installs of LN due to the "temporary" nature of the LN fix.
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Old 04-22-2016, 10:17 AM   #4
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I'll start the popcorn
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:10 PM   #5
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The time for congratulating Pedro is 50,000 miles from now :-).
Lasting for 1 oil change is hardly a triumph? It may be a perfectly viable IMSB replacement option but more field results are required.
The LN bearing lasts as long as a clutch +/- so that is O.K. for most users?
Did you examine the bearing in Pedro's kit ? It is just a generic average grade alternator bearing. Not saying that is bad, it just isn't anything better than LN.But it is definitely cheaper.
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
The time for congratulating Pedro is 50,000 miles from now :-).
Lasting for 1 oil change is hardly a triumph? It may be a perfectly viable IMSB replacement option but more field results are required.
The LN bearing lasts as long as a clutch +/- so that is O.K. for most users?
Did you examine the bearing in Pedro's kit ? It is just a generic average grade alternator bearing. Not saying that is bad, it just isn't anything better than LN.But it is definitely cheaper.

You may be right on all accounts. However, if you believe Pedro, and I do, his thought on the subject is " it's not the bearing, it's the lubrication" that matters.

My dentist says too much popcorn is bad for my teeth, so that'll be it for me.


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Old 04-22-2016, 02:30 PM   #7
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Why are you so confident?

I haven't seen any test results that would give a statistical confidence. I want to see a very large number of units installed for a large number of years for a large number of miles under a large variety of conditions and then I'd have confidence. You may be right. But is it too early to say?

I say that as one who had to make the call on when a product was ready to ship. A mistake would have cost millions.

I say this about most of the kits.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
Why are you so confident?

I haven't seen any test results that would give a statistical confidence. I want to see a very large number of units installed for a large number of years for a large number of miles under a large variety of conditions and then I'd have confidence. You may be right. But is it too early to say?

I say that as one who had to make the call on when a product was ready to ship. A mistake would have cost millions.

I say this about most of the kits.
Perhaps you might also want to talk about the installs that had to be removed because of problems.

Now you can get out the popcorn..........
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by eallga72 View Post
2002 S 40,000 miles, first oil change (4,000 miles, one year) since IMS DOF upgrade, parts kit from Tuners Motorsports. Filter clean and filtered oil through medium mesh filter, oil clean.
That's great news!

Maybe the LN fanboys should start their own thread instead of crapping in this one? Yeah...
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:44 PM   #10
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Popcorn you say ...... I agree but its better than that, we have a double hitter going, the previous thread is "Mobile 1 0W-40 on sale"!
This could be good, I hope it goes into overtime!
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Old 04-22-2016, 05:00 PM   #11
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popcorn time for real,..... quotes from the lips of a P-tech

So my pal is a P-tech....
he's the one that is certed for the 918, so ya he's on point.

and he owns a box 986, a 968, a 944 l-racer.....to much info, but


so he says.."all the blown IMS bearing I took out (he inspected every one that came near him) had caked lube inside (when able to inspect, he did A LOT of not blown up but definitely going out IMS's), the bearing got too hot and the sealed in lube failed, seal=no further lube=death."

He's about due for a new engine in a car he "inherited" blown up, and even he is torn, "I'm buying a new short block, do I do an LN (oil fed) or a Pedro's, or leave it" and NEVER overheat the oil, clutch, car??? (implied)...

very interesting, from a purely engineering standpoint, that bearing NEEDS an oil feed.

IMHO, and from good (see above) advice...
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Old 04-22-2016, 05:21 PM   #12
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OK, have to throw some popcorn in.

My opinion: The seal doesn't overheat. The problem that ruins the seal is the atmospheric pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the ims shaft in combination with heat cycles. Also the OEM bearings are not really highest quality ones.

Regards, Markus
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Old 04-22-2016, 05:28 PM   #13
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that's not what I meant to convey (not what I said)

the seal is fine, at sealing in the original dose of grease, for ever.

the lube, "from the factory", gets cooked into slime, then the bearing fails...

the problem is no other bearing inside a motor is sealed like this under such load.
ever other bearing is directly oil fed, or in a splash or submergence zone.

M
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:10 PM   #14
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Not disagreeing Sassmat but a detail -
The IMSB is partially submerged in oil at rest.But it is sealed so that should not matter?
The seals leak because of pressure delta.Then the oil level becomes critical?
The same bearing design (sealed+greased ) is used in alternators and in the 986/996 manual gearbox.
The debate - load vs lube will never be resolved - so just address both issues?
The Germans have a word for it "Mist" !

Last edited by Gelbster; 04-23-2016 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 04-23-2016, 12:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassmatt72 View Post
the seal is fine, at sealing in the original dose of grease, for ever.

the lube, "from the factory", gets cooked into slime, then the bearing fails...

the problem is no other bearing inside a motor is sealed like this under such load.
ever other bearing is directly oil fed, or in a splash or submergence zone.

M
Not even close. Of the many we have pulled out, nearly every one were devoid of any grease or grease remnants, and all had oil in them. Of the ones that were already "on their way", both the balls and races showed signs of galling and excessive heat, but again most had just clean oil in them, not "slime" or anything else left over from the factory grease.

The question you need to be asking yourself is why the steel bearing needs a pressurized oil feed, when the some nearly 25,000 installed ceramic hybrids do just fine on the oil mist moving around inside the sump.

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