Towed and 10 codes!!!

[Starter986]

Sunday paid a trip to Apple Valley to visit grandkids. 58 miles of pavement… two miles of dusty and bumpy dirt road. Dusty. Bumpy. So… four miles of that dirt and bump.

Left to return home. Car running fine for 48 miles… stopped to fill up. When leaving the gas station I noticed that my low fuel light remained on… and not registering the full tank. Removed and replaced the key several times. Gauge didn’t register.

Drove wife four miles to work Monday… no change in gauge with the exception of the low fuel light was on. When picking her up that afternoon… gauge registered just above empty (needle slightly moved)… but no light.

I believe the bumpy four miles jarred something loose, and I’m thinking the sending unit is damaged/loose/broken. I did some reading and I’m inclined to think I need to pull and inspect the sending unit. Thoughts?

The gauge pales into comparison to the trouble from yesterday. Wife drove the car to work. Leaving work, and less than a mile from her office… the check engine light comes on… and the car starts to stumble and hesitate. She pulls over… I have the car towed home. I run the OBDII for codes. 10 of them. I note them, and then try starting the car. The car starts, and I let it run for a couple seconds… noting a slight hesitation/stumbling. I shut off the car, preparing it for this morning.

OK. The codes.

P0300
P0301
P0304
P1130
P1128
P1126
P1124
P1319
P1313
P1316

I looked up the codes… possible remedies… and this morning I:

Removed all coils. Inspected, no cracks. Cleaned them up, including cleaning the electrical connections. No oil in the tubes. Plugs looked fine while peeking down the tubes. I didn’t remove them.

Checked the air filter. Fine.

Cleaned the MAF sensor. Examined the AOS tubes and bellow at the bottom. All good.

I checked vacuum lines that I could see… and no disconnections.

I then tried to start the car. It works to turn over, but won’t start. It sounds sluggish.

I’m not sure what next I should be chasing. Air. Fuel. Compression. Spark. For a compression check, I don’t have the tool(s). I’m trying the “easiest” fixes first.

Would anyone mind chiming in and recommending what steps I next should take? I have no helper here to assist. I’ll keep my eye on the forum today. Thank you!

Jim

[JFP in PA]

First, clear all the codes, run the car and see what comes back.

Codes 1124 and 1126 say that the DME cannot richen the mixture enough to get it back in range.

Possible faults:
*Intake system leak
*low fuel pressure
*clogged injectors
*fuel pump

If those two codes reoccur, I'd check the fuel system for correct pressures.

[blue62]

What JFP said.
All those codes relate to a lean condition.
You may want to change out your fuel pump relay as a simple cheap first step.
The points in relays can carbon up and cause issues doesn't happen often but it does happen.

[seningen]

Originally Posted by blue62

What JFP said.
All those codes relate to a lean condition.
You may want to change out your fuel pump relay as a simple cheap first step.
The points in relays can carbon up and cause issues doesn't happen often but it does happen.

depending on how bumpy -- your fuel pump could have come loose. It is inside your fuel tank and there's sort of a twist/locking mechanism
that holds it in place --

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

First, clear all the codes, run the car and see what comes back.

Codes 1124 and 1126 say that the DME cannot richen the mixture enough to get it back in range.

Possible faults:
*Intake system leak
*low fuel pressure
*clogged injectors
*fuel pump

If those two codes reoccur, I'd check the fuel system for correct pressures.

Thank you, JFP, for that information. I did find myself reading some of your historical posts, and you have suggested that route on a few occasions.

This may be a TLDR post…

I cleared the codes after I attended to the coils and everything else I listed. Tried to start the car. Wouldn’t. Checked codes… I forgot to reconnect the MAF harness. Reconnected. Wouldn’t start. Cleared the MAF code.

At your recommendation I just returned from checking the codes. No codes. I tried to start the car, and still no start. It’s turning over… but, again, no start. I checked the codes, again, and no codes.

After my initial morning troubleshooting (coils, etc.) I did get under the car… removed the center panel to access the fuel filter. I read, and watched some videos… but when it came to removing the plastic pieces (2) that support the radiator lines, and the slim line between them, and after removing the two 10mm bolts that support the, er, support, I simply couldn’t muster the confidence to remove it. I feared it would break. My intention was to just replace the fuel filter, for I’ve had one in the parts bin for years now, and rule that out.

That didn’t happen. I know, I know… a plastic support piece… no confidence. I must have used up all my confidence when first I got the car and replaced the AOS, water pump, R&R alternator, R&R starter, R&R throttle body, etc.

So… I removed the snap connector from the fuel line… attached a hose into a jar marked for ~3.5 cups… and went to do the relay jumper trick to activate the fuel pump. That was a no go. I’m not a small fella and, the angle in which I backed the car, post tow, didn’t allow for the driver door completely to open… and for the life of me I couldn’t get those two wires to fit into the respective relay connection points. I then decided to plug back in the relay, and try to fire up the car in an effort to inspire the fuel to pump. That was unsuccessful. I reattached the snap on connection… and that’s the end of that.

Of the four possible faults you listed, I’m thinking because of the ridiculously bumpy four miles of dirt road… and because the fuel gauge registered empty… just above the empty light designator… that the engine isn’t receiving fuel. I’m also suspecting that it has something to do with the fuel sending unit… whatever… buried in the tank, under the battery tray.

Should I pull the unit? If affirmative, I’ll do some reading and watching for what I’ll need to do.
Do you believe the challenge emanates from that bumpy drive… the empty needle?

What do you believe the codes for cylinders 1 and 4 reveal? The misfires. Do you find it odd that both banks were ‘hit’?

Thank you for your wisdom. I appreciate it.

[gonz]

I always start at the fuel filter, personally.

And then noticed your post came up after I hit reply. I haven't messed with the sending unit yet so I'll sit back and watch.

[The Radium King]

occams razor - fuel gauge issue related to no start/rough running issue.

where do the two meet - fuel pump / fuel level sending unit - one unit located under battery.

battery - two terminals and one fastener to remove.

fuel tank cover plate - four fasteners.

start with the electrical connection which should be visible once cover plate removed,

then pull the assembly (easy as per sennigen) and visually inspect for mechanical issues.

[JFP in PA]

I would start by connecting a fuel pressure test gauge to the Schrader valve test port on the fuel line and testing for both pressure and fuel deliver rates. If either is off spec, I would pull the fuel filter and replace it, then test pressure and deliver again. If it still fails, the pump itself is bad. Whenever we do a pump on one of the early 986's with and external filter, we always replace the filter along with the pump, so you would already have a new filter in place. Misfires are common when the system goes way lean.

[Starter986]

Thank you all for the recommendations.

I'm going to attempt jumping the fuel relay one more time. I've wire and connectors... and will bring some patience. I'll be listening to hear if the fuel pump buzzes. If not... maybe it's the pump. However, before I rush into replacing the pump...

I'll check the fuel pressure at the rail. Picked up a compression test kit from HF a coule/few months back... haven't used it. Will.

The fuel filter. Since I have the car up, and the panel removed... I may attempt the filter. However... I was able to remove the line with the click attachment. However, the other, exiting, line appears to slip over a fuel line... with no clamp... and appears to have been on there for some time. How the heck does that come off?

It's 90+ and humid... so I've called it a day. Friday and Saturday I'll return to it.

Thank you, again. I'll be back.

[JFP in PA]

This may help: https://youtu.be/N5ViSh3Gb28

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by Starter986

I'm going to attempt jumping the fuel relay one more time. I've wire and connectors... and will bring some patience..

I know that it's easy to say (specially with this heat), but patience is the key word here..

For what I had read, I am betting on the fuel pump as well, but before you get a new one you may want to remove it and check it out of the tank (just in case something got disconnected while jumping on the dirt road), but keeping in mind that these are cooled by the fuel itself, so if it runs you have to shut it off right away (before you fry it..)

Good luck!

[78F350]

I'll give you $1,200 for it as is.





...and I have my box of old fuel sending units in the garage right now from working on the blue car. If you want crappy old parts shipped your way, let me know.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by 78F350

I'll give you $1,200 for it as is.





...and I have my box of old fuel sending units in the garage right now from working on the blue car. If you want crappy old parts shipped your way, let me know.

Funny. And, for a fleeting moment yesterday I almost considered...

I'll let you know if I'll need the sending unit or the pump... fer sher. Likely I will.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Gilles

I know that it's easy to say (specially with this heat), but patience is the key word here..

For what I had read, I am betting on the fuel pump as well, but before you get a new one you may want to remove it and check it out of the tank (just in case something got disconnected while jumping on the dirt road), but keeping in mind that these are cooled by the fuel itself, so if it runs you have to shut it off right away (before you fry it..)

Good luck!

Oh, you gave me a lesson in patience.

The cooling the pump won't be a problem, if it runs. I had filled up the tank.

I may have to siphon... but to where does 14.7 gallons go? (rhetorical)

Your pucks remain seccure. I'll get them to you sooner or later. Believe it or not... I haven't ventured past Redlands since last II was out... and that was only one time. I'll head west at somee point.

[wiebuschk]

It all seemed to start with a fill up. Could you have some bad gas?

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by Starter986

The cooling the pump won't be a problem, if it runs. I had filled up the tank.

I was referring to powering the pump outside the fuel tank to check if it is working or not..

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Gilles

I was referring to powering the pump outside the fuel tank to check if it is working or not..

I thought I might try the jumper trick first... followed by testing the fuel pressure at the rail... then, maybe, pulling the sending unit. I've zero place for 13 gallons of gas, so I may just have to reach my hand down into the tank to remove the pump.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by wiebuschk

It all seemed to start with a fill up. Could you have some bad gas?

The road was rough. I mean r o u g h. After the fill up... there went the gauge. Now...

When I removed the fuel line under the car (the one with the clip), and after I removed the gas cap... when thaat connection, er, disconnected there was a little burst of pressure, could see and hear it, and the very little gas that blew out... it looked dirty. AND... when I came into the house to wash my hands they almost looked like Michael Jackson's. Big stain patch.

Now that you've refreshey memory I may just access the top of the taank, pull out some gaas, aand see what it looks like. Thanks!

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by Starter986

disconnected there was little burst of pressure, could see and hear it, and the very little gas that blew out... it looked dirty.

Does your car have a fuel filter? I seems that something is obstructing the flow, but it could also be a faulty check valve that is not allowing fresh air entering the fuel tank (so it can breath) without polluting.
Just guessing

[Starter986]

78F350... hold off on the message I just sent you.

So... long story short...

Tested fuel pump... heard it, and did the jar 3.5 cups effort.

Installed new fuel filter.

Pulled battery... tray... electric and hose connections from fuel pump. Thinking I'm going to see how bad is the fuel...

Tank is bone dry. Bone. Dry.

Just checked my card statement... and there's no charge for the gas I THOUGHT I put in.

So, eff.

I'll get some gas in a can... and check that fuel pump. I tried to start it a number of times... and hope it still works.

Thank you, all! Damn.

I'll follow up. Thanks again.