What is the correct way to drive through a curve (spirited driving)?

[Topless]

Originally Posted by new2bxstr

When I come to an curvy exit ramp for example, do I accelerate going into it? Or midway into it? This is purely for fun to pull some Gs. Wondering what the correct way is.

This is a great thing to learn at a race track with a skilled instructor in your car. Once you really gain some cornering skill you will be far less likely to kiss a guard rail without warning, and wondering what went so wrong.

G forces are fun to play with so get some right-seat training.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by thstone

Get your braking done before turn-in or trail brake if you know how. Heel and toe if you have to downshift. Corner entry should be at a constant speed and mid-range rpm's. Try not to brake in the middle of the corner as it will upset the balance of the car - better to enter the corner too slow rather than too fast. A late apex always helps corner exit speed. Maintain speed, turn in, let the car roll and feel the suspension set; then throttle steer through mid-corner. Get back on the throttle to accelerate out of the corner and start to unwind the steering wheel as early as possible as you begin corner exit. Don't forget to use the entire width of the lane/road to allow the car to track out (to the extent possible). All the while, be aware of sand, gravel, and other road debris that might affect grip and adjust your line and control inputs accordingly.

That's it. Easy breezy.

If you really want to learn drive well, go to a local trackday and have an instructor ride along with you. You will learn the proper techniques, go faster than you ever could on the street, and have more fun than you ever thought possible.

Originally Posted by Topless

This is a great thing to learn at a race track with a skilled instructor in your car. Once you really gain some cornering skill you will be far less likely to kiss a guard rail without warning, and wondering what went so wrong.

G forces are fun to play with so get some right-seat training.

What they said!!

Just spent 2 wonderful days at the track, way too much fun.

Check with your local Porsche Club or even (gasp) BMW club and see when they have a Performance Driving School or car control clinic. They are by far the best bang for the buck.

Autocross is also great practice for low cost and local.

As others have said, slow in/fast out and also slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
Best to be a little slower entering the curve in control than to be too fast and be out of control

OP, where are you located?

[Porsche Chick]

I tend not to slow down for curves unless they're around 90 degrees, then I will lift my foot of the accelerator. Grudgingly. And if it does start to feel a little loose, you want to direct the force forward by accelerating.

But I've driven two auto-crosses (and loved them) so I'm very familiar with what my car can do. I let one of the instructors run me through the course the first time, and it was SHOCKING I was scared out of my wits, but the car took it like a champ, with minimal roll.

So, yeah, try an autocross, it is entirely too much fun. :dance:

[JayG]

Originally Posted by Porsche Chick

I tend not to slow down for curves unless they're around 90 degrees, then I will lift my foot of the accelerator. Grudgingly. And if it does start to feel a little loose, you want to direct the force forward by accelerating.

But I've driven two auto-crosses (and loved them) so I'm very familiar with what my car can do. I let one of the instructors run me through the course the first time, and it was SHOCKING I was scared out of my wits, but the car took it like a champ, with minimal roll.

So, yeah, try an autocross, it is entirely too much fun. :dance:

just 2 autocrosses and will not teach you the limits of the car. You need way more instruction than that.

Do you understand weight transfer?, contact patch? apexing?, threshold braking?, throttle steer? to name a few....

[Porsche Chick]

Originally Posted by JayG

just 2 autocrosses and will not teach you the limits of the car. You need way more instruction than that.

Do you understand weight transfer?, contact patch? apexing?, threshold braking?, throttle steer? to name a few....

Hey, there's a curve coming up! Wait, let me go get my dictionary . . . maybe a chart would help . . .

And weren't you the one that just said "Autocross is also great practice for low cost and local.

As others have said, slow in/fast out and also slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
Best to be a little slower entering the curve in control than to be too fast and be out of control"?

Where's the contact patch in that post?

[JayG]

Originally Posted by Porsche Chick

Hey, there's a curve coming up! Wait, let me go get my dictionary . . . maybe a chart would help . . .

And weren't you the one that just said "Autocross is also great practice for low cost and local.

As others have said, slow in/fast out and also slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
Best to be a little slower entering the curve in control than to be too fast and be out of control"?

Where's the contact patch in that post?

LOL

All Seriousness aside

Yes, AX is great practice, just that only 2 wont teach you all about the car.

Definitely better to be a little slower entering a turn and accelerating out of the turn, than having to brake and possibly upset the car balance in the turn.

All of thet has to do with weight transfer, contact patch, apexing, braking and throttle steering, etc.

Here is a website that gives you a a pretty good overview of this stuff
TurnFast! Race Driving Techniques for Heel Toe Downshift, Driving Line, Cornering, Braking, and More • Driving Techniques

On top of doing AX, see if one of the local; car clubs does a driving school and/or look for a DE at a local track.

If you think AX id fun, wait until you do continuous lapping on a race track

[Perfectlap]

I read an article once, by an indy lights driver I think, saying its actually "fast in, fast out".
I have to dig that up. The long and short of it was that people are teaching it all wrong, "slow in and fast out" is not a golden rule, that this just conditions the driver to upset the balance of the car. "Slow in, fast out" are just training wheels that need to be ditched once the driver firmly has the basics down. The key he argued, and what was common among the quickest drivers, was the principle of using a marginally earlier turn in to carry more speed.

[Jim Rockford]

If anyone hasn't read it, I'd strongly recommend a book called The Unfair Advantage by racing driver Mark Donohue. Besides having insights on driving technique, it was just a really engaging read.

He was racing in a time where there were differing schools of thought on how to go fast still emerging. His approach developed into trying to master braking, turning and accelerating in one smooth integrated action.

He found it faster to do some of the final braking during the initial turn in. This being said, he was a professional racing driver, and the balance required to execute without issues would obviously pose a challenge. I've seen some analysis of Schumacher's footwork during cornering and it's proven that he's often overlapping use of the brake and throttle at the same time while transitioning towards mid corner, so that supports the blended approach that Donohue took.

The other great thing with that book is that Donohue was educated as an engineer, and he pioneered some interesting developments in racecar technology, and a lot of his time was spent as a Porsche works driver and long term relationship with Roger Penske.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Jim Rockford

He found it faster to do some of the final braking during the initial turn in.

That technique is well known as trail braking (and I mentioned it in my earlier post).

The first thing that I want to say is that there is no single "best" way to take a corner in a Boxster (we all have roughly equal cars) because so much depends on the skill level of the driver. Jay and Perfectlap's points are both valid - the technique employed depends entirely on the driver skill level.

Once a driver gets the basics down, then trail braking and several other advanced techniques are quite useful and probably faster.

For example; one of my favorites is to enter the turn faster than the turn can be executed. The innate understeer at turn in will scrub some speed; then completely lift off of the throttle to purposefully upset the balance - this will put weight onto the front tires and unweight the rear tires. At the same time as lifting the throttle, give the steering a big input. The rear will literally slide as the car rotates in mid-corner.

What you've done is purposefully created the start of a spin. The trick is to drive out of it.

As soon as the car starts to rotate (this happens FAST in a mid-engined Boxster so if you wait until its already rotated, its too late and you will spin), jump back on the throttle hard; this will shift weight to the rear tires and they will hook up. Done properly, you can then drive the car out of the corner at full throttle.

Fast in - fast out.

This and many other techniques should be in every performance driver's toolbox and this is one thing that I love so much about performance driving and racing - no matter your skill level, there is always more to learn to improve your capabilities.

The important takeaway is to get good instruction so you properly learn the basics and then work your way up to more advanced techniques. And the best place to learn is on the race track where the cost of a serious mistake is minimized.

[nieuwhzn]

The fun factor increases when your tires are less grippy. It is way more fun when your car starts sliding well before you reach the bleeding power edge.

[Porsche Chick]

Originally Posted by thstone

That technique is well known as trail braking (and I mentioned it in my earlier post).

The first thing that I want to say is that there is no single "best" way to take a corner in a Boxster (we all have roughly equal cars) because so much depends on the skill level of the driver. Jay and Perfectlap's points are both valid - the technique employed depends entirely on the driver skill level.

Once a driver gets the basics down, then trail braking and several other advanced techniques are quite useful and probably faster.

For example; one of my favorites is to enter the turn faster than the turn can be executed. The innate understeer at turn in will scrub some speed; then completely lift off of the throttle to purposefully upset the balance - this will put weight onto the front tires and unweight the rear tires. At the same time as lifting the throttle, give the steering a big input. The rear will literally slide as the car rotates in mid-corner.

What you've done is purposefully created the start of a spin. The trick is to drive out of it.

As soon as the car starts to rotate (this happens FAST in a mid-engined Boxster so if you wait until its already rotated, its too late and you will spin), jump back on the throttle hard; this will shift weight to the rear tires and they will hook up. Done properly, you can then drive the car out of the corner at full throttle.

Fast in - fast out.

This and many other techniques should be in every performance driver's toolbox and this is one thing that I love so much about performance driving and racing - no matter your skill level, there is always more to learn to improve your capabilities.

The important takeaway is to get good instruction so you properly learn the basics and then work your way up to more advanced techniques. And the best place to learn is on the race track where the cost of a serious mistake is minimized.

Isn't this basically drifting through a turn?

I need to actually ask my dad about this, he's a DE driver for AMG/Mercedes.

I still won't let him drive my car, though.

[san rensho]

No, its not drifting. Drifting, while very dramatic, is actually a very slow way of getting around a corner.

If you push trail braking to the limit and execute it perfectly, you will feel all four wheels slide simultaneously a little bit. That means you've reached the limit of adhesion.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Porsche Chick

Isn't this basically drifting through a turn?

No, its not drifting in the sense of sliding the car all the way through the turn. If you were watching, it is likely that you would never notice the rear slide around - its very subtle and only for a moment to get the car to rotate thru mid-corner. No big slip angles and no big tire smoke.

[Xpit77]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

Be smooth! Smooth on the brakes (squeeze them), smooth steering inputs, smooth on the throttle (again, squeeze it). Abrupt inputs to any control can upset the attitude of the car and complicate things when you are really going quickly.

Smooth, smooth, smooth!

I agree . This is how I was taught. My instructors used the wet sponge method. Think of a wet sponge under the throttle. When you accelerate push down hard enough to go but still keep the water in the sponge same when you lift. It will give you more throttle control which is paramount.

[pieter1]

Slow in sideways out not fast but spectacular and smile on your face. LOL Make sure you know your car first of all, basic handling, like me I have a friend is South Africa with a 997 GT3 RS and the car scares him, I usually drive it on track days and its is awesome. But when I use to get in my old 930 (in your mind you think you can do the same) in corner 1 I am in the sand trap. Every time. I know its not the same comparison (930 is brutal turbo lag is terrible). Go to a track day get instruction and slowly start pushing yourself. As soon as you go O **************** that will be your limit. Maybe not the cars limit but yours, if as individuals we did not have limits we would all be F1 drivers.

[steved0x]

Not like this:

[Porsche Chick]

Originally Posted by thstone

No, its not drifting in the sense of sliding the car all the way through the turn. If you were watching, it is likely that you would never notice the rear slide around - its very subtle and only for a moment to get the car to rotate thru mid-corner. No big slip angles and no big tire smoke.

Awwwww . . . where's the fun in that?

[dbear61]

Originally Posted by BoxsterSteve

Shiny side up.
But seriously, as long as you don't jump on the brakes during a high G corner, the car will probably have more grip than you have cojones.

After driving Yellowstone, Rockies, Black Hills, Badlands, Blue Ridge, Great Smokey, SW Wisconsin Alphabet and Dragon's Tail, I agree: this car can handle more than most of us would dare attempt.

DBear

[thstone]

With regards to cornering, ask me how I know...

[husker boxster]

Originally Posted by thstone

With regards to cornering, ask me how I know...

"If the lion didn't bite the tamer every once in a while, it wouldn't be exciting." - Darrell Waltrip