Why are BMW's so slow in reality ( specifically 335i )

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

I love all the butt hurt street racing posts. Everyone has this broken idea of what a street race is. I think most older gentleman in this group have seen one too many fast and furious movies and took it to heart. There are plenty of scenarios where a street race is just as safe on the street as it is on a track if not more safe ...

Under no circumstance is street racing on a PUBLIC road "safe". First of all, 9 times in 10 you don't know the skill set of the driver in the other car. Neither do you know the condition of his machinery as being safe to race at high speed. When you leave so many IMPORTANT variables up to chance you are simply showing a lack of grey matter. I used to work in the criminal courts many ages ago. Two guys came in from jail for street racing. One guy had some German luxury car the other an American sports car. They decided to race and ended up hitting a bystander in another car who was killed. Mr. luxury car got a big time criminal defense lawyer and "only" did a couple of years in jail for manslaughter. The guy in the other car apparently couldn't afford a $50K legal defense (your insurance does not cover this) and was convicted of "Death by Auto" and was sentenced to 10 years in a maximum security prison. He's now a convicted felon with some seriously compromised life options. Not to mention he destroyed the family of the victim. Either of those two jokers could be any guy racing on the street.

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Under no circumstance is street racing on a PUBLIC road "safe". First of all, 9 times in 10 you don't know the skill set of the driver in the other car. Neither do you know the condition of his machinery as being safe to race at high speed. When you leave so many IMPORTANT variables up to chance you are simply showing a lack of grey matter. I used to work in the criminal courts many ages ago. Two guys came in from jail for street racing. One guy had some German luxury car the other an American sports car. They decided to race and ended up hitting a bystander in another car who was killed. Mr. luxury car got a big time criminal defense lawyer and "only" did a couple of years in jail for manslaughter. The guy in the other car apparently couldn't afford a $50K legal defense (your insurance does not cover this) and was convicted of "Death by Auto" and was sentenced to 10 years in a maximum security prison. He's now a convicted felon with some seriously compromised life options. Not to mention he destroyed the family of the victim. Either of those two jokers could be any guy racing on the street.

So you missed the whole evaluating conditions part of my post I see. Read my last sentence in the third paragraph about being a critical thinker...

Not knowing someone else's car condition is a risk you take at the track. Yes there is tech inspection but anything can happen at anytime. And again on the street you may have more opportunity to avoid a situation of a car losing control next to you because you are not trapped in by jersey walls.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

So you missed the whole evaluating conditions part of my post I see. Read my last sentence in the third paragraph about being a critical thinker...

Not knowing someone else's car condition is a risk you take at the track. Yes there is tech inspection but anything can happen at anytime. And again on the street you may have more opportunity to avoid a situation of a car losing control next to you because you are not trapped in by jersey walls.

No I didn't miss it. That's why I said 9 in 10 times. Street racing is nearly always impromptu. Driver A sees Driver B behind the wheel of a certain type of car and a dim little light bulb goes off in his dim little head: time to race! I know that there is "organized" street racing but this is even more retarded because you are (A) needlessly risking the lives of bystanders on public roads since you can't limit access of others during "the race", when (B) there are always venues for drag racing with emergency services standing by and (C) you won't go to jail and lose driving privileges, pay insane insurance, etc., etc. There is literally no reason to drag race on public roads other than reckless disregard for the safety of other drivers. Same applies to these guys on motorcycles doing 160 with clueless SUV driving-while texting motorists in the same lane.

And yes a track is where greater risks are taken, my point exactly.

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

No I didn't miss it. That's why I said 9 in 10 times. Street racing is nearly always impromptu. Driver A sees Driver B behind the wheel of a certain type of car and a dim little light bulb goes off in his dim little head: time to race! I know that there is "organized" street racing but this is even more retarded because you are (A) needlessly risking the lives of bystanders on public roads since you can't limit access of others during "the race", when (B) there are always venues for drag racing with emergency services standing by and (C) you won't go to jail and lose driving privileges, pay insane insurance, etc., etc. There is literally no reason to drag race on public roads other than reckless disregard for the safety of other drivers. Same applies to these guys on motorcycles doing 160 with clueless SUV driving-while texting motorists in the same lane.

And yes a track is where greater risks are taken, my point exactly.

You continue to bring up how it's endangering innocent bystanders. I don't know how many times I have to reiterate that a proper street race doesn't involve innocent bystanders. Again this is the broken concept of street racing. All anyone thinks of is people weaving in and out of traffic with people walking on sidewalks and baby's in strollers. Clear roads, flat roads, good weather conditions, good room for error. That's a green light. I don't think you need to argue that street racing with others in the area is stupid. No one here is disagreeing with that, yet you continue to use that as your argument.

[Top_Ramen]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

I love all the butt hurt street racing posts. Everyone has this broken idea of what a street race is. I think most older gentleman in this group have seen one too many fast and furious movies and took it to heart. There are plenty of scenarios where a street race is just as safe on the street as it is on a track if not more safe because some scenarios allow for greater areas of error unlike the track where you have a far greater chance of going into a jersey wall.

Not saying this was the scenario but what's the harm in putting 2 performance cars to the test if your on an open stretch of road with no one else around? Only people getting hurt would be those involved. Just like at a track.

As someone that was a previous "street racer" I 100% agree with this. "Street racing" in my eyes is dead now due to misconceptions and the new "racers" that think blasting on the highway is racing.

When I was younger, me and my buddies used to head out racing almost EVERY weekend. But was it dangerous?? **************** yeah, but we took as many precautions as we could, like setting up the race at a different location or even online so we wouldn't have an exodus of cars following us and maybe endangering if 1 of the cars racing got sideways. We also would go somewhere secluded wide enough in case of error, long enough to have stopping room, and definitely not on the highway blasting too 180mph+ speeds that you see these days all over the internet.

....I loved every second of it. Getting a call for a potential race, loading up the trailer, arguing for countless hours about stipulations, and just the rush of testing your car and yourself trying to stick rubber to unprepped pavement. Call me wreckless, ignorant, whatever etc. It's an American past time in my opinion but so frowned upon now because of media and people not knowing what they're doing


...Sorry for the long rant, but back on topic, I don't think the 335 was on it

[Nmbrsix]

I have significant seat time in an E90 335i AT as well as an E92 M3.

There's no way a well driven E90 or F30 335i is going to lose any straight line speed contest to a 2.7L Boxster. I would be ill-advised to take one on with my 3.2.

Also, street racing is stupid.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by Nmbrsix

I have significant seat time in an E90 335i AT as well as an E92 M3.

There's no way a well driven E90 or F30 335i is going to lose any straight line speed contest to a 2.7L Boxster. I would be ill-advised to take one on with my 3.2.

Also, street racing is stupid.

Perhaps he kept missing gears, always a possibility, although that's less likely at highway speeds but who knows? Maybe he slipped from 3rd to 5th each time

But in my opinion, if a car is so difficult to drive that an owner of the vehicle would keep missing gears then that's a partial reflection on the vehicle itself. Why own a vehicle that's difficult to drive that only a professional can get to accelerate well?

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

I love all the butt hurt street racing posts. Everyone has this broken idea of what a street race is. I think most older gentleman in this group have seen one too many fast and furious movies and took it to heart. There are plenty of scenarios where a street race is just as safe on the street as it is on a track if not more safe because some scenarios allow for greater areas of error unlike the track where you have a far greater chance of going into a jersey wall.



Not saying this was the scenario but what's the harm in putting 2 performance cars to the test if your on an open stretch of road with no one else around? Only people getting hurt would be those involved. Just like at a track.



And for the argument of people saying these are not straight line cars....I understand their performance is greater in the turns but a 13 second quarter mile is very respectable so running the car in a straight line, the car holds its own against cars that were built for the straight line.



Street racing can be very stupid in most scenarios. With that said there are plenty of scenarios that any critical thinking person could look at and say "no one on the road, flat road, wide road, weather conditions good, only harm done is those involved."



Flame suit has been put on. Godspeed.

It's not even about safety for me.

I just don't see the purpose of a measuring contest. Our cars are quick, and a lot of other cars are quicker.

It just makes you look bad when you go around doing highway pulls.

Now I'll be honest with you, I probably pass on the highway at times at speeds similar to you racing.

I keep up with and or leave cars in the twisties however it's always just me driving at my pace.

It's about me and making sure I have full control of the car at all times, the buck stops there though because then you are trying to impress or compete with someone else and that does belong on a track. For safety reasons but also on the simple basis of principle.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

I love all the butt hurt street racing posts. Everyone has this broken idea of what a street race is. I think most older gentleman in this group have seen one too many fast and furious movies and took it to heart. There are plenty of scenarios where a street race is just as safe on the street as it is on a track if not more safe because some scenarios allow for greater areas of error unlike the track where you have a far greater chance of going into a jersey wall.

Not saying this was the scenario but what's the harm in putting 2 performance cars to the test if your on an open stretch of road with no one else around? Only people getting hurt would be those involved. Just like at a track.

And for the argument of people saying these are not straight line cars....I understand their performance is greater in the turns but a 13 second quarter mile is very respectable so running the car in a straight line, the car holds its own against cars that were built for the straight line.

Street racing can be very stupid in most scenarios. With that said there are plenty of scenarios that any critical thinking person could look at and say "no one on the road, flat road, wide road, weather conditions good, only harm done is those involved."

Flame suit has been put on. Godspeed.

thank you

[Crono0001]

I won't lie. I mash the throttle plenty of times on public roads. But I think the qualm here is with these repeated posts:

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/46879-test-drove-2013-camaro-ss-manual-not-impressed.html

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/45737-bmw-335ci-not-bad-almost-fast-us.html

boxster vs 350z?

Killed by a modified evo X

No "Race" or "Kills" section?


I've never met Mr. Inquiry in person. I don't know if he drives the way he posts, but if he does, he belongs in a turbo'd civic or a Mustang more than a Boxster. There are soooo many ways to get cheaper speed than a Porsche Boxster of all things.



But back to the conversation about track vs. street.

Even if the street was wide open and there was nobody around to injure, it STILL would not be better than a track environment. Your wreck could block the road, and cause someone unaware on a dark night to hit your smoldering pile of car. Tracks have people watching out for wrecks. There are fire teams and medical teams nearby. We have flag guards on duty for a reason. No 'street' or 'public' scenario will ever be as safe as a track.

If you want to test you and your car's mettle, take it to the track, because that's where it really matters. Straight line driving is stupid. I would bet money that I could pull faster times in my 1.8L Miata on any technical course than someone who does nothing but highway roll racing.

[Devact]

As a fellow St. Louis native to 986-Inquiry, I don't want to see him street racing around my family, however that's not what this thread was really about, so to bring it back to topic:

I traded my '02 S in last year on a 2015 BMW 435i xDrive convertible for my wife's DD. I will absolutely assure you, her car is fast.... Significantly faster than the Boxster ever was. Mashing to full throttle in Sport or Sport + mode and shifting yourself via the paddles, once you get to the point where the turbos are spooled it is fast enough that you will run up the rear of the car in front of you before you even fully realize what happened. 30-70 happens before you even know you're there. There is an economy mode that changes the chassis dynamics, shift point and throttle response to somewhere south of a Ford Festiva, and there is also the normal Comfort mode that will not light any fires. I would estimate 0-60 in Comfort at somewhere around 6 - 6.5 seconds, and it also has such a low shift point that it barely ever gets much up past 2k on the tach. If you were doing this on the highway, then chances are extremely good that the driver was in Comfort mode. In Sport or Sport +, especially with a driver shifting for themselves, you would never have stood a chance.

However, I will say that it never FEELS fast. It feels like a German luxury performance coupe at all times, every corner at speed, and every take off from a stop light. I've said it before, but the Boxster just felt like raw, unbridled fury at times, and made you feel like you had far more power than you did, and were going far faster then you were. The BMW, its just there, no feeling to it at all.

[lkchris]

Porsche has a lot better aero than the BMW. At higher speeds this makes a LOT of difference. In addition, you can bet the Porsche is lighter. That BMW has a steel--not aluminum--jack (if it's not on runflat tires, that is.)

[Crono0001]

Hey 986_Inquiry. Let's go to a local track near me during a NASA event. I'll even pay for your entry fee. You take your 2.7L Boxster. I'll take my 1.8L Miata, which has 100 horsepower at the flywheel. Remember to bring your GoPro, so that you can link video in your post "Miata is slow on paper but somehow super fast in real life"

[986_inquiry]

You guys complain about racing on streets? Watch any of the High Tech Corvette videos. Shows busy public roads and vehicles going WAAAY too fast.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL42D68F29945688FF

this camaro can't even go straight as it flies by other cars on a small road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLjm6kqpeE#t=01m15s

not saying street racing is acceptable, just saying there's a lot of really bad examples out there and people are posting videos of them like it's wonderful

[Topless]

I am quietly ashamed when I read another "BMW Kill" post at 986 Forum. Street racing is for pimply-faced adolescent males whose nads haven't dropped yet. Sure, I did it when I was a pimply-faced adolescent. I lost a few good friends to it as well and that cured the itch big time.

Something comes over us in a street race and we leave our critical thinking skills behind in the red mist. There is no open public road that is completely safe for racing unless it is blocked off at either end with communication between the participants and the road control. Then it is a controlled surface and no longer a public road. When going 120mph we cannot know every possible circumstance that may arise on an open public road. It's a bad idea whether you are currently willing to acknowledge it or not.

/rant off

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by Topless

I am quietly ashamed when I read another "BMW Kill" post at 986 Forum. Street racing is for pimply-faced adolescent males whose nads haven't dropped yet. Sure, I did it when I was a pimply-faced adolescent. I lost a few good friends to it as well and that cured the itch big time.

Something comes over us in a street race and we leave our critical thinking skills behind in the red mist. There is no open public road that is completely safe for racing unless it is blocked off at either end with communication between the participants and the road control. Then it is a controlled surface and no longer a public road. When going 120mph we cannot know every possible circumstance that may arise on an open public road. It's a bad idea whether you are currently willing to acknowledge it or not.

/rant off

there's.... different levels, of "street racing".

There's the fast and furious movie level, where they're racing between buildings on roads with 30mph speed limits in vehicles that were designed to carry groceries more than they were designed to take corners.

And then there is the empty 70mph speed limit highways in the midwest, where you can see for miles, in a vehicle that was built for the track and designed for speed.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

there's.... different levels, of "street racing".

And then there is the empty 70mph speed limit highways in the midwest, where you can see for miles, in a vehicle that was built for the track and designed for speed.

Yep. What could possibly go wrong...
VWVortex.com - Boxster vs. Pheasant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PszM4iIhdo8

[ianacole]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

You guys complain about racing on streets? Watch any of the High Tech Corvette videos. Shows busy public roads and vehicles going WAAAY too fast.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL42D68F29945688FF

this camaro can't even go straight as it flies by other cars on a small road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLjm6kqpeE#t=01m15s

not saying street racing is acceptable, just saying there's a lot of really bad examples out there and people are posting videos of them like it's wonderful

Yes, there are a lot of useful idiots out there...

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

You guys complain about racing on streets? Watch any of the High Tech Corvette videos. Shows busy public roads and vehicles going WAAAY too fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLjm6kqpeE#t=01m15s

not saying street racing is acceptable, just saying there's a lot of really bad examples out there and people are posting videos of them like it's wonderful

Racing in general adds to it.

The street outlaws show on tv needs to be shut down asap.

That girls unattractive as well, idk why putting a 5 in a low cut top and seat belt with roll bars behind her makes her into a 10 for some.

http://youtu.be/icinI4VxbtQ

[Timco]

I felt pretty comfortable getting to higher speeds in the Mojave desert where it was perfectly straight and you can see both sides for miles. May need to cruise through there again sometime.

There's lots of isolated great roads in the west desert that go waaaay out to mil installations but there's Antelope. Just that says no no.

Oh, man!! That cow's gotta see us!!