Why are BMW's so slow in reality ( specifically 335i )

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Under no circumstance is street racing on a PUBLIC road "safe". First of all, 9 times in 10 you don't know the skill set of the driver in the other car. Neither do you know the condition of his machinery as being safe to race at high speed. When you leave so many IMPORTANT variables up to chance you are simply showing a lack of grey matter. I used to work in the criminal courts many ages ago. Two guys came in from jail for street racing. One guy had some German luxury car the other an American sports car. They decided to race and ended up hitting a bystander in another car who was killed. Mr. luxury car got a big time criminal defense lawyer and "only" did a couple of years in jail for manslaughter. The guy in the other car apparently couldn't afford a $50K legal defense (your insurance does not cover this) and was convicted of "Death by Auto" and was sentenced to 10 years in a maximum security prison. He's now a convicted felon with some seriously compromised life options. Not to mention he destroyed the family of the victim. Either of those two jokers could be any guy racing on the street.

So you missed the whole evaluating conditions part of my post I see. Read my last sentence in the third paragraph about being a critical thinker...

Not knowing someone else's car condition is a risk you take at the track. Yes there is tech inspection but anything can happen at anytime. And again on the street you may have more opportunity to avoid a situation of a car losing control next to you because you are not trapped in by jersey walls.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

So you missed the whole evaluating conditions part of my post I see. Read my last sentence in the third paragraph about being a critical thinker...

Not knowing someone else's car condition is a risk you take at the track. Yes there is tech inspection but anything can happen at anytime. And again on the street you may have more opportunity to avoid a situation of a car losing control next to you because you are not trapped in by jersey walls.

No I didn't miss it. That's why I said 9 in 10 times. Street racing is nearly always impromptu. Driver A sees Driver B behind the wheel of a certain type of car and a dim little light bulb goes off in his dim little head: time to race! I know that there is "organized" street racing but this is even more retarded because you are (A) needlessly risking the lives of bystanders on public roads since you can't limit access of others during "the race", when (B) there are always venues for drag racing with emergency services standing by and (C) you won't go to jail and lose driving privileges, pay insane insurance, etc., etc. There is literally no reason to drag race on public roads other than reckless disregard for the safety of other drivers. Same applies to these guys on motorcycles doing 160 with clueless SUV driving-while texting motorists in the same lane.

And yes a track is where greater risks are taken, my point exactly.

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

No I didn't miss it. That's why I said 9 in 10 times. Street racing is nearly always impromptu. Driver A sees Driver B behind the wheel of a certain type of car and a dim little light bulb goes off in his dim little head: time to race! I know that there is "organized" street racing but this is even more retarded because you are (A) needlessly risking the lives of bystanders on public roads since you can't limit access of others during "the race", when (B) there are always venues for drag racing with emergency services standing by and (C) you won't go to jail and lose driving privileges, pay insane insurance, etc., etc. There is literally no reason to drag race on public roads other than reckless disregard for the safety of other drivers. Same applies to these guys on motorcycles doing 160 with clueless SUV driving-while texting motorists in the same lane.

And yes a track is where greater risks are taken, my point exactly.

You continue to bring up how it's endangering innocent bystanders. I don't know how many times I have to reiterate that a proper street race doesn't involve innocent bystanders. Again this is the broken concept of street racing. All anyone thinks of is people weaving in and out of traffic with people walking on sidewalks and baby's in strollers. Clear roads, flat roads, good weather conditions, good room for error. That's a green light. I don't think you need to argue that street racing with others in the area is stupid. No one here is disagreeing with that, yet you continue to use that as your argument.

[Crono0001]

I won't lie. I mash the throttle plenty of times on public roads. But I think the qualm here is with these repeated posts:

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/46879-test-drove-2013-camaro-ss-manual-not-impressed.html

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/45737-bmw-335ci-not-bad-almost-fast-us.html

boxster vs 350z?

Killed by a modified evo X

No "Race" or "Kills" section?


I've never met Mr. Inquiry in person. I don't know if he drives the way he posts, but if he does, he belongs in a turbo'd civic or a Mustang more than a Boxster. There are soooo many ways to get cheaper speed than a Porsche Boxster of all things.



But back to the conversation about track vs. street.

Even if the street was wide open and there was nobody around to injure, it STILL would not be better than a track environment. Your wreck could block the road, and cause someone unaware on a dark night to hit your smoldering pile of car. Tracks have people watching out for wrecks. There are fire teams and medical teams nearby. We have flag guards on duty for a reason. No 'street' or 'public' scenario will ever be as safe as a track.

If you want to test you and your car's mettle, take it to the track, because that's where it really matters. Straight line driving is stupid. I would bet money that I could pull faster times in my 1.8L Miata on any technical course than someone who does nothing but highway roll racing.

[Devact]

As a fellow St. Louis native to 986-Inquiry, I don't want to see him street racing around my family, however that's not what this thread was really about, so to bring it back to topic:

I traded my '02 S in last year on a 2015 BMW 435i xDrive convertible for my wife's DD. I will absolutely assure you, her car is fast.... Significantly faster than the Boxster ever was. Mashing to full throttle in Sport or Sport + mode and shifting yourself via the paddles, once you get to the point where the turbos are spooled it is fast enough that you will run up the rear of the car in front of you before you even fully realize what happened. 30-70 happens before you even know you're there. There is an economy mode that changes the chassis dynamics, shift point and throttle response to somewhere south of a Ford Festiva, and there is also the normal Comfort mode that will not light any fires. I would estimate 0-60 in Comfort at somewhere around 6 - 6.5 seconds, and it also has such a low shift point that it barely ever gets much up past 2k on the tach. If you were doing this on the highway, then chances are extremely good that the driver was in Comfort mode. In Sport or Sport +, especially with a driver shifting for themselves, you would never have stood a chance.

However, I will say that it never FEELS fast. It feels like a German luxury performance coupe at all times, every corner at speed, and every take off from a stop light. I've said it before, but the Boxster just felt like raw, unbridled fury at times, and made you feel like you had far more power than you did, and were going far faster then you were. The BMW, its just there, no feeling to it at all.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

You continue to bring up how it's endangering innocent bystanders. I don't know how many times I have to reiterate that a proper street race doesn't involve innocent bystanders. Again this is the broken concept of street racing. All anyone thinks of is people weaving in and out of traffic with people walking on sidewalks and baby's in strollers. Clear roads, flat roads, good weather conditions, good room for error. That's a green light. I don't think you need to argue that street racing with others in the area is stupid. No one here is disagreeing with that, yet you continue to use that as your argument.

The whole point of a public road is that it is open to the public, at any time, anywhere. You always run the risk of innocent bystanders when on a public road. At any point, someone could wonder into your path.

There are a ton of tracks around. If you want to drive fast, use them. If you are worried about the safety cause of the walls and such - then maybe you aren't good enough to be doing this at all.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

I love all the butt hurt street racing posts. Everyone has this broken idea of what a street race is. I think most older gentleman in this group have seen one too many fast and furious movies and took it to heart. There are plenty of scenarios where a street race is just as safe on the street as it is on a track if not more safe because some scenarios allow for greater areas of error unlike the track where you have a far greater chance of going into a jersey wall.



Not saying this was the scenario but what's the harm in putting 2 performance cars to the test if your on an open stretch of road with no one else around? Only people getting hurt would be those involved. Just like at a track.



And for the argument of people saying these are not straight line cars....I understand their performance is greater in the turns but a 13 second quarter mile is very respectable so running the car in a straight line, the car holds its own against cars that were built for the straight line.



Street racing can be very stupid in most scenarios. With that said there are plenty of scenarios that any critical thinking person could look at and say "no one on the road, flat road, wide road, weather conditions good, only harm done is those involved."



Flame suit has been put on. Godspeed.

It's not even about safety for me.

I just don't see the purpose of a measuring contest. Our cars are quick, and a lot of other cars are quicker.

It just makes you look bad when you go around doing highway pulls.

Now I'll be honest with you, I probably pass on the highway at times at speeds similar to you racing.

I keep up with and or leave cars in the twisties however it's always just me driving at my pace.

It's about me and making sure I have full control of the car at all times, the buck stops there though because then you are trying to impress or compete with someone else and that does belong on a track. For safety reasons but also on the simple basis of principle.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

Clear roads, flat roads, good weather conditions, good room for error. That's a green light.

How can you have clear roads when you don't have the authority to shut them down to any incoming traffic in the first place?

Mostly clear, and usually clear is not clear.

Either the road has been cut off from additional traffic or it hasn't. Basically you're simply trying to re-invent a safe condition that already exists at a dedicated drag strip... for no good reason.
That's like going swimming at the sewage treatment plant because it's more exciting than the swimming in the pool at your gym.

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Giller

The whole point of a public road is that it is open to the public, at any time, anywhere. You always run the risk of innocent bystanders when on a public road. At any point, someone could wonder into your path.

There are a ton of tracks around. If you want to drive fast, use them. If you are worried about the safety cause of the walls and such - then maybe you aren't good enough to be doing this at all.

If you can't drive a car straight on a public road then maybe you shouldn't have a license. That's what I got from your comment.

[lkchris]

Porsche has a lot better aero than the BMW. At higher speeds this makes a LOT of difference. In addition, you can bet the Porsche is lighter. That BMW has a steel--not aluminum--jack (if it's not on runflat tires, that is.)

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

How can you have clear roads when you don't have the authority to shut them down to any incoming traffic in the first place?

Mostly clear, and usually clear is not clear.

Either the road has been cut off from additional traffic or it hasn't. Basically you're simply trying to re-invent a safe condition that already exists at a dedicated drag strip... for no good reason.
That's like going swimming at the sewage treatment plant because it's more exciting than the swimming in the pool at your gym.

Have you ever been in the country? Ever see a road stretch straight and flat as far as the eye can see? We are talking 1/4 mile races here that wrap up in 12-14 seconds. If you can't see a clear enough path for a 12-14 second window for a straightaway that is a serious lack of judgement.

Again I feel a picture is being painted here of a 3 mile long race that lasts for minutes on end. This stuff is over in a blink of an eye. Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of bad things can happen in a blink of an eye. It's in a mans blood to go faster than the guy next to him. There is a time and a place for everything. Some argue that time and place is a track. But if you truly believe you can't safely do a quick pull with someone next to you on a wide open road that you can CLEARLY see no intersections, no people and not a chance of a random person walking out in the middle of the road, then my god, you live one ridiculously over cautious life. I'm surprised you take the risk of getting into a car every day and better yet bought a performance car.

For the record I respect you as a person on the forum particle wave. You bring a lot of positive posts to this community and I'm not here to be causing a heated argument (I don't think it's heated) I think we will just go back and fourth for ever on this so I'll just agree to disagree.

I fully understand the bad reputation street racing has in the publics eye. Plenty of idiots out there. With that said plenty of people run a respectable race endangering no one but them selves. Go to Texas. If you are telling me there are not roads in Texas that are acceptable for a street race than we will never find common ground. Those roads exist somewhere in just about every state.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

If you can't drive a car straight on a public road then maybe you shouldn't have a license. That's what I got from your comment.

If that's what you got, then that's what you got.

But what I said was/is pretty straight forward. Don't drive like a dink on a public road. Pretty simple stuff. Tons of tracks out there for you to play on. That's what they are for.

If you want to argue it's okay to drag race on a public road, go right ahead. You obviously don't care what we all think anyways....

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by Giller

If that's what you got, then that's what you got.

But what I said was/is pretty straight forward. Don't drive like a dink on a public road. Pretty simple stuff. Tons of tracks out there for you to play on. That's what they are for.

If you want to argue it's okay to drag race on a public road, go right ahead. You obviously don't care what we all think anyways....

And you care about what I have to say?

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

For the record I respect you as a person on the forum particle wave. You bring a lot of positive posts to this community and I'm not here to be causing a heated argument (I don't think it's heated) I think we will just go back and fourth for ever on this so I'll just agree to disagree.

Whoa...wait..what? I didn't say anything. I'm staying out of this one.

[PorscheBound]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Whoa...wait..what? I didn't say anything. I'm staying out of this one.

Haha dang it! I meant perfect lap. At least both your usernames start with P. I have that going for me.

[BoxsterLS376]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

Again I feel a picture is being painted here of a 3 mile long race that lasts for minutes on end. This stuff is over in a blink of an eye. Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of bad things can happen in a blink of an eye. It's in a mans blood to go faster than the guy next to him. There is a time and a place for everything. Some argue that time and place is a track. But if you truly believe you can't safely do a quick pull with someone next to you on a wide open road that you can CLEARLY see no intersections, no people and not a chance of a random person walking out in the middle of the road, then my god, you live one ridiculously over cautious life. I'm surprised you take the risk of getting into a car every day and better yet bought a performance car.

Agreed.

Posts like this are a big reason I have not posted any of my videos driving my car on here. Would people enjoy them, sure but I'm sure just as many would jump on the "OMG YOUR CRAZY AND IRRESPONSIBLE!!!" bandwagon. I drive fast, and yes occasionally I race people on the street, but I am always careful. Could anything happen, sure, but that is part of life.

If I wasn't crazy and somewhat irresponsible I certainly wouldn't have a 500HP Boxster, but life would probably be pretty boring too.

I think you are more likely to be hit by an idiot checking Facebook on their iPhone while their self braking car drives them down the road then you are to be hit by a street racer these days, but there are a lot of idiots out there.

Oh and regarding the intention of this original post, hate to break it to ya bro, but the 335 wasn't trying because there is no way you were pulling him on the highway in a 2.7 boxster

[Nmbrsix]

I have significant seat time in an E90 335i AT as well as an E92 M3.

There's no way a well driven E90 or F30 335i is going to lose any straight line speed contest to a 2.7L Boxster. I would be ill-advised to take one on with my 3.2.

Also, street racing is stupid.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by ekam

Or maybe he wasn't racing you.

LOL right, that's it

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

Street racing alone is dumb but if you need to join a measuring contest than you are not proud enough of what you've got as it is.

You shouldn't have to brag about being faster than family sedan to feel good about driving a boxster, if you have to than you bought the wrong car.

Well.... AMG's are "family sedans" too, but they do 12 second quarters and beat new Z06s when they came out. "Family sedan" does not equal slow

I'm just shocked at the numbers, like I said a 13.0 second car should have been several car lengths ahead of me, not in my rearview mirror.

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by PorscheBound

I love all the butt hurt street racing posts. Everyone has this broken idea of what a street race is. I think most older gentleman in this group have seen one too many fast and furious movies and took it to heart. There are plenty of scenarios where a street race is just as safe on the street as it is on a track if not more safe because some scenarios allow for greater areas of error unlike the track where you have a far greater chance of going into a jersey wall.

Not saying this was the scenario but what's the harm in putting 2 performance cars to the test if your on an open stretch of road with no one else around? Only people getting hurt would be those involved. Just like at a track.

And for the argument of people saying these are not straight line cars....I understand their performance is greater in the turns but a 13 second quarter mile is very respectable so running the car in a straight line, the car holds its own against cars that were built for the straight line.

Street racing can be very stupid in most scenarios. With that said there are plenty of scenarios that any critical thinking person could look at and say "no one on the road, flat road, wide road, weather conditions good, only harm done is those involved."

Flame suit has been put on. Godspeed.

thank you