your oil filter preference

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by particlewave

OEM + magnets on the housing (DIY).

I may machine my own adapter in the engineering depatment this fall. The LN tax is too high for me to justify.

If you do, see also about making one with an integrated port for an accusump that does not hang down as far as the LN Adapter + Canton Sandwich adapter (although that may not get you much since the LN adapter doesn't hang down all that much. ) But a combined unit should be able to save some height...

Steve

[Duezzer]

Just running an Mahle filter - Used Wix once but noticed it had a smaller filter medium -

May pick up some rare earth magnets - Say 100#+ pull and attach them to the filter housing

Should work like the Magnetic Drain Plug.

Might even pick up a magnetic drain plug in time as I don't think it would hurt anything.

Can someone explain why the use of the spin on is an upgrade - The last 3 vehicles that we have bought now have element type filters not spin ons

[911monty]

Took a picture for evidence (pics or didn't happen)! And to show what it looks like installed. I was wanting to leave magnet on filter until after I cut open to see the particles stuck to side of the canister, but that may not be possible.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by Duezzer

Just running an Mahle filter - Used Wix once but noticed it had a smaller filter medium -

May pick up some rare earth magnets - Say 100#+ pull and attach them to the filter housing

Should work like the Magnetic Drain Plug.

Might even pick up a magnetic drain plug in time as I don't think it would hurt anything.

Can someone explain why the use of the spin on is an upgrade - The last 3 vehicles that we have bought now have element type filters not spin ons

Duezzer; I guess I can give my two cents worth until the sages chime in!

First off have a look at the picture I posted and maybe visit their website but the

Filtermag is a very well designed/made part. I found mine in an old NAPA parts

clearance for $32.00. Definitely worth the money.

IMHO there are several reasons the LN spin-on adapter is an

upgrade, Primary is that it filters the oil 100% before sending to the oil galleries by

eliminating the oil bypass in the OEM filter canister. The advantage here is twofold,

cleaner filtered oil and as discussed in the IMSB threads since you are filtering your oil

100% you can potentially catch early IMSB failure/engine damage by preventing

collateral damage due to circulating debris. Something that really isn't discussed but I

think should be considered is a regular replacement of the OEM canister at some interval

say 50k miles, to prevent the built in bypass from weakening or failing/blocked open

resulting in more debris circulating thru the engine. Like I said my 2 cents.:ah:

[Perfectlap]

Okay I think I follow that. But wouldn't two magnets give you a steadier decline in laminar flow regardless of mileage? I guess that's what I was trying to ask in the first order. The slower the decline in laminar flow the more even the wear on the filter media? Which I assume is what you want.

[husker boxster]

Sorry to interupt Physics class, but I do:

Cayman: LN spin-on + NAPA Gold 1042

Boxster: Mahle cannister

I use the set up on my CSS since it's my track car and Jake mentioned it was easy to have debris damage the plastic cannister. That would not be a good thing since I frequent tracks that can be 1-2K mi away from OMA.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Okay I think I follow that. But wouldn't two magnets give you a steadier decline in laminar flow regardless of mileage? I guess that's what I was trying to ask in the first order. The slower the decline in laminar flow the more even the wear on the filter media? Which I assume is what you want.

Cool! Flow is only effected by media filter area decreasing due to plugging (the magnet has

no effect on the distribution of non ferrous particles to the media), Thus resulting in higher fluid velocity through the remaining media.

In laminar flow surface friction has minimal to no effect on turbulence. The Filter mag

attaches the particles to the side of the canister and has marginal effect on restricting

flow (from friction) along that side of the canister, unless/until the magnet captured

enough particles to restrict flow in that area. This would then require the dual filters to

spread out the captured particles over a wider area. However in my opinion,

going back to oil change interval, for this to happen you would have to have pretty

severe engine damage occurring to have this quantity of ferrous circulating debris. Hope this answers the

question.

[Duezzer]

Thanks for the info.

Are there different adapters on the marked or just the LN

I don't use NAPA products anyone know if WIX make a filter that will fit the adapter?

[thstone]

Plain Jane OEM filters.

None of my three engine failures were due to imperfect oil filtering.

[clickman]

^ but your next one could be...

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by thstone

Plain Jane OEM filters.

None of my three engine failures were due to imperfect oil filtering.

What were the culprits and how many miles on each engine?

Also, the engine may not fail but as 911Monty points out, surely over time performance can be affected by smaller bits getting past the media.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

What were the culprits and how many miles on each engine?

Also, the engine may not fail but as 911Monty points out, surely over time performance can be affected by smaller bits getting past the media.

204,000 miles - timing chain failure
136,000 miles - lifter failure
300 miles after rebuild of 136K mile engine - repeat lifter failure due to worn lifter carrier

146,000 miles and still running fine 996 when sold

[rick3000]

In the past JFP has recommended using the Wix/NAPA Gold Oil Filter 7211, if you stick with the cartridge filter. Apparently, they are less prone to disintegrating on the ends than most paper filters.

Link: Remove oil pan

[thstone]

With the above being said ^^^, I understand that my experience is not representative of all engines.

However, in reality, doesn't the oil that goes thru the bypass get filtered the next time thru? Even if the bypass was permanent, isn't the turnover rate high enough such that it wouldn't take long for all of the oil (and all of the contaminants) to have passed thru the filter?

What I mean is first pass, 20% unfiltered. 2nd pass 20% of the first 20% is bypassed (0.04%). By the third pass, 20% x 20% x 20%, only 0.008% of the oil is unfiltered. Very quickly, the amount of unfiltered oil approaches zero and any new contaminants are also quickly filtered out in only a handful of turnovers.

Or am I missing something?

[Fyeganeh]

Originally Posted by thstone

With the above being said ^^^, I understand that my experience is not representative of all engines.

However, in reality, doesn't the oil that goes thru the bypass get filtered the next time thru? Even if the bypass was permanent, isn't the turnover rate high enough such that it wouldn't take long for all of the oil (and all of the contaminants) to have passed thru the filter?

What I mean is first pass, 20% unfiltered. 2nd pass 20% of the first 20% is bypassed (0.04%). By the third pass, 20% x 20% x 20%, only 0.008% of the oil is unfiltered. Very quickly, the amount of unfiltered oil approaches zero and any new contaminants are also quickly filtered out in only a handful of turnovers.

Or am I missing something?

You mean 20% then 4% and then 0.8% and so on. Same idea.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by thstone

With the above being said ^^^, I understand that my experience is not representative of all engines.

However, in reality, doesn't the oil that goes thru the bypass get filtered the next time thru? Even if the bypass was permanent, isn't the turnover rate high enough such that it wouldn't take long for all of the oil (and all of the contaminants) to have passed thru the filter?

What I mean is first pass, 20% unfiltered. 2nd pass 20% of the first 20% is bypassed (0.04%). By the third pass, 20% x 20% x 20%, only 0.008% of the oil is unfiltered. Very quickly, the amount of unfiltered oil approaches zero and any new contaminants are also quickly filtered out in only a handful of turnovers.

Or am I missing something?

Problem remains that as long as there is any bypass, particulate matter is getting fed into the main oil galleries feeding the rods and mains; which is never a good thing.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by thstone

With the above being said ^^^, I understand that my experience is not representative of all engines.

However, in reality, doesn't the oil that goes thru the bypass get filtered the next time thru? Even if the bypass was permanent, isn't the turnover rate high enough such that it wouldn't take long for all of the oil (and all of the contaminants) to have passed thru the filter?

What I mean is first pass, 20% unfiltered. 2nd pass 20% of the first 20% is bypassed (0.04%). By the third pass, 20% x 20% x 20%, only 0.008% of the oil is unfiltered. Very quickly, the amount of unfiltered oil approaches zero and any new contaminants are also quickly filtered out in only a handful of turnovers.

Or am I missing something?

thstone I hope we could all have high mileage vehicles that simply wear out but most will probably never see those mileages. So trying to prevent the myriad of engine failure causes is probably more of a concern.

As far as eventual filtering is concerned as long as the filter bypass (excellent terminology) is open, oil is not being filtered. This is due to fluid flow(oil) will be to path of least resistance which is though the bypass and not the restriction of the media.
Once the bypass closes then your calculation is effected by the beta efficiency of the filter which for the WIX/NAPA filter is 95% of 20 micron and 50% of 2 micron particles on first pass. SO unless your engine never generates any debris there will always be material, especially in the <20 micron range.
While the greatest engine wear occurs on dry startup, some percentage of the remaining wear could be attributed to the abrasive wear caused by the <20 micron particles. If we can remove the metallic component from this debris maybe we can reduce the more abrasive component.
Lastly what caused the lifter failure of your engine? Plugging and stuck? If so then perhaps 50 % of your engine failures were due to circulating debris. Wore out lifter carrier! Anyway only the best for my car and if this helps then I won't have to have my daddy buy me another one! Win WIN!

[rick3000]

I installed the LN Spin on adapter today. I had just shy of 5k on a Napa/Wix 7211 paper filter. The one with the plastic sides and it did not disintegrate at all. But I did find some particles in the filter when I tore it open. However, none of the larger (circled) particles where magnetic/ferrous. I ran a magnet over the filter, and only pulled off a few tiny sand sized particles.

Looking forward to comparing this to the spin on filter with hard drive magnets in 5k miles.


Originally posted in: Manual Transmission Drain Plug - Magnet?

[911monty]

Promised I'd follow up when I changed my oil so here goes. Oil changed at 4000 miles, Castrol Edge 10w-40. These pics are from the inside the oil filter. The dark lines are from the ferrous dust removed by the filter mag. These are extremely fine particles. Unfortunately I was unable to capture the glitter effect from the particles. I'm happy spending a small amount of money to get this out of my oil. Cut open the filter and examined with magnifying glass and strong magnet. No ferrous particles. There were some plastic particles, some gold others dark green I removed and photographed. Sample of oil sent to Cat for analysis. If any interest I can post results of the UOA for comparison. Thanks

[Perfectlap]

^ the UOA would be an interesting before and after if there is an improvement.