Mid / rear engine flops...

[Timco]

What comes to mind??

Fiat Bertone
Toyota MR2
Pontiac Fierro

I used to really like the Fiat.

[litespeedp]

I liked the FIAT X/19 too.I test drove the first year 1974 with the small nerf bumpers at the dealership and liked it a lot.

The great thing about car clubs and forums is that the fixes for the big things that soured the public are discovered and remedied with time.The early Ford De Tomaso Pantera's had cooling and A/C etc problems and now the owners get great support with parts that eliminate the early model problems.

[BIGJake111]

I think early mr-2s are alright, the late model that was on sale at the same time as the boxster was an absolute joke though.

Supposedly the Evora isn't that good of a car particularly for its price.

[10/10ths]

...DeLorean.

[Finnegan]

My ex had a first gen SC MR2. It was fun, in a snap oversteer sort of way.

[patssle]

Was there ever a legal issue of the MR2 3rd gen looking too similar to the Boxster? Looks like they ripped off the design.

[78F350]

Originally Posted by Timco

Fiat Bertone
Toyota MR2
Pontiac Fierro

I bought an MR2 once just to cut apart and see what was inside ($150). The good parts actually sold pretty quick. Drove it around the yard a couple times (no brakes except for the e-brake).



I think that the X 1/9s were made out of rusty metal at the start and after the first year, it would bleed through the paint:



A co-worker has a Fiero. He keeps it parked in the back of the parking lot at work. Think he's embarrassed to have it in his driveway.

Wasn't there Ford that came out in the mid to late 80s..? I can't think of the name.

[schnellman]

I had a Lancia Scorpian for a couple years. Loved the handling. Getting parts was like finding a Unicorn.

[Chuck W.]

Don't forget the Corvair... According to Nadar, it was a flop. But there are a lot of enthusiast out there.

[flaps10]

Do you means sales flop, or the car was a piece of crap?

Keep in mind that one man's flop is another man's bargain. Sort of how I ended up with a cheap Porsche.

I'm going to preface this next part by admitting to the only GM car I've ever owned. My typical opinion of their products is just this side of my thoughts on Chrysler.

Way, way back in the day I fell into a deal for a Fiero (it was a 2 year old '86 model). They were known for bursting into flames and the early models s*** the bed for the entire production run because of clutch problems. GM solutions were weak at best.

On the flip side, it was a very comfortable two seat road tripping car. I'm 6'2" and you could be considerably taller than me and be comfortable. The stock stereo including speakers in the head rests is probably responsible for most of my hearing loss.

Hate it if you want, it was a low slung mid engine car and that always pays in smiles. I even had the most hated 2.5 four cylinder (aka 151cu in "iron duke"). It was a push rod motor that was completely out of breath past 4500 rpm. The gearing however was perfectly spaced so that you could keep the car between it's 4k rpm torque peak and 4400 rpm hp peak at all times. It was possible to maintain some very high speeds in the corners.

The clutch problems were because the pivot shaft was too tight. Curable with a bit of tinkering and a piece of sandpaper.

The tendency to burst into flames was often due to oil starvation in high G turns (my car had amazing rubber and rims). The dry engine would throw a rod and puke what little oil it had left on the exhaust manifold. There were work arounds with large capacity oil filters, running slightly more oil (one recall just gave you a different dip stick to do just that). I kept a halon fire extinguisher in the car but never used it.

Glitchy throttle position sensors were another pain. They failed randomly even if new. The solution was to crack it open and solder three metal tabs to the contacts they were touching and then silicone it shut.

My car broke a head bolt. A head gasket set was $40 and I was back in business.

In the end, not my worst car experience. Cheap to run and still holds my fastest time across the state of Washington (by over 40 minutes).

[thstone]

The early Gen 1 MR2 was essentially a Toyota Cayman. I bought a 1985 MR2 brand new and we drove it 125,000 miles until selling it in 1993.

The 1.6L four cyl had dual overhead cams, 4-valves per cylinder, variable intake, and produced 112hp for 70hp/liter. That engine loved to rev and was reminiscent of a high performance motorcycle engine - which was no surprise because the engine was partly developed by Yamaha.

At this time, the 3.2L Porsche 911 was producing 207hp for 65hp/liter - less than a Toyota! And remember, Toyota (then and now) is not exactly known for squeezing every hp out of an engine. Fairly impressive for the time.

And to the best of my recollection, the MR2 had no intermediate shaft bearing. Engines would routinely run past 200,000 miles without a problem.

Handling was exemplary and consistent with a mid-engine sports car. Many a driver (including myself) spun it after being surprised at how quickly it rotated. It was nimble, quick, and incredibly fun to drive.

Of course, the later models became bloated (as is so common) and lost all of the magic that made the early model so fun.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by flaps10

... Way, way back in the day I fell into a deal for a Fiero...

[78F350]

Wasn't there Ford that came out in the mid to late 80s..? I can't think of the name.

The one I was trying to remember was the XR2, Mercury Capri XR2. Turns out it was front engine & FWD, so not in the category.

[leftfield6]

Yeah, I'm not sure what you are referring to as a "flop"??

I've owned both a 1st Gen MR2 and actually multiple X1/9s. The X1/9 was on the market for 13 years, so it obviously had some success. And the 1st Gen MR2 was an outstanding car for the 1980s. Well balanced, dependable, well built, great in the curves.

I'm not seeing a flop here.

[fins]

i am embarrassed to say that I've have owned a Fiero...

[steved0x]

I had an X 1/9 back in the late 80's when I was 17, bought it for $500 with the money I made working at McDonald's. It was a 4 speed, had no seat belts, and I think it was a 76 or 77. My friend had one and his dad helped me fix it up.

A few years ago remembering the experiences I had driving it led me to searching for another convertible (mid life crisis / divorce present to myself) and that is when I discovered the Boxster.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by leftfield6

Yeah, I'm not sure what you are referring to as a "flop"??

I've owned both a 1st Gen MR2 and actually multiple X1/9s. The X1/9 was on the market for 13 years, so it obviously had some success. And the 1st Gen MR2 was an outstanding car for the 1980s. Well balanced, dependable, well built, great in the curves.

I'm not seeing a flop here.

Well, can't edit titles.

I figured the Boxster was 18 years of 986 and still made today. That's a winning design that is still in demand. 13 years is a good run but with all production gone, parts still around for any of those? In 10 years? Is about 10 years of production the marker for a good run?

I had a Pinto wagon in high school. Then moms friend parked a Fiero in front of our house and I wanted it bad. She was even selling. Worked payments out to be $72-mo but for my first job at $3.15/hr or something close, that was a decent payment plus insurance. Then in front of my own home, smoke started pouring out the engine bay and the FD was called. Doused that tiny car with water then open hood and wet it down and pull batt. Electrical fire. I was never so pleased to have a Pinto.

[paulofto]

I had a 78 X1/9 from 79 to 85 and it was my daily driver in Edmonton. Bitter winters and all, the little Fiat was a fun car. Never a problem with rust but the electricals were sometimes an adventure. I did all my own work including clutch and transmission stuff and did a little auto crossing up at the old Edmonton Speedway (now long gone). The only thing it lacked was HP but it handled like a slot car. I wish I still had it.

[BIGJake111]

I guess arguably he mid engine Porsche twins, 914, and the nsx may be the only truly successful mid engine affordable cars.

I'm not sure how the vx220 and Opel speedster did or most other lotus based cars as they rarely come stateside. The 4c could end up being remotely successful however I still find it very overpriced.

[leftfield6]

Originally Posted by Timco

Well, can't edit titles.
13 years is a good run but with all production gone, parts still around for any of those? In 10 years? Is about 10 years of production the marker for a good run?

Still a few specialty retailers and shops providing parts and service for the "old" Fiat family of cars, The 124 Spider series and the Bertone (X1/9) series were the most popular Fiats, so many parts are still available.

Midwest Bayless in Ohio even offers a conversion kit to put an Acura K20 engine in an X1/9. 210 HP = 0-100 in 14 seconds.

Youtube clip