Value of engine upgrade?

[Qmulus]

I have now seen a couple of very nice Boxster S's with 3.6 and 3.8 liter engine upgrades, and neither seemed to command a premium over nice original cars. Here is the the 3.8 liter. Just building the engine would cost that much. The 2000 S with 3.6 liter (LN Nickies on a 3.2, not a 996 engine) was in excellent shape with LOTS of factory options and tasteful upgrades (PSS9 suspension, 19" wheels), yet it went months before it sold for $15k, which is about half of what just the upgrades cost. I drove that car and it was/is something special. That car got me thinking about buying a Boxster, but it was sold when I was in the market.

I guess I wonder why people don't snap these cars up and/or bring a premium? It seems that if you are spending $20-$30k to get a big displacement engine built and installed that it would add value to the cars, especially when they also likely took care of the known issues in the engine. Thoughts?

[Giller]

It's all about supply and demand. There just isn't a HUGE demand for the upgraded engine. Therefore, selling one and looking for a premium is going to severely limit your buying audience. Might take ages for the right person to come along.
Upgrades just don't add much value to a car to the masses, only to the right person.
And from these boards, those that want an upgraded engine will probably do it themselves.

[thstone]

Most buyers don't want to inherit someone else's problems and buying a FrankenMonster sets off just about every alarm under the sun. Even the most tasteful and professionally done engine upgrades often don't turn out well or have significant compromises (in the long-term).

I'm not saying that it can't be done right (it can), but so often it isn't and distinguishing between the two can be hard for most buyers.

Therefore, there isn't much demand and not much of a premium in the pricing.

[mikefocke]

The problem is where do you find someone familiar with the mods that were done and the issues that can result. Who knows with any certainty what problems will crop up in 40k miles, or 80k? And parts can become problematic as the original maker loses interest..

$15k for a 2000S is a lot of money these days for what is now a 15 year old car.

[flaps10]

Knowing what I do now about the M96, a big bore Nickies setup for $15k would be exactly what I would be looking for.

That's better than factory cylinder bores, new pistons and rings. If they could show me receipts for main bearings, decent rods and ARP bolts I would get out my checkbook.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by flaps10

Knowing what I do now about the M96, a big bore Nickies setup for $15k would be exactly what I would be looking for.

That's better than factory cylinder bores, new pistons and rings. If they could show me receipts for main bearings, decent rods and ARP bolts I would get out my checkbook.

Add to this the overall condition of the car and maintanance records I'd been in. $15k for a nice Porsche is not alot of money especially when you see what other nice Porsches are going for. Getting parts and someone to figure the car out when it needs work isn't too hard in my neck of the woods. There are several Porsche shops that have experience with modified drivetrains thta I trust. Doing a purchase long distance makes all of this a bit harder. In the end there just aren't enough folks that think like this and many of those that do already own one. Car like this is tough to sell but for the right buyer it's a good deal.

[Perfectlap]

variables. Lots of them.

Who did the rebuild? long reputation? Good reputation?

How was the rebuild done? Should it have been done on that donor engine in the first place? How many miles since the rebuild?


A typical buyer will never have good answers to all these questions.
So generally speaking they won't put a big premium on aftermarket engine work.

But at the same time, you never really own a sports car. You own an engine with a car tossed in.
So if there's anything that should command a premium it's not the wheels, headlights, new top, etc.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

variables. Lots of them.

Who did the rebuild? long reputation? Good reputation?

How was the rebuild done? Should it have been done on that donor engine in the first place? How many miles since the rebuild?


A typical buyer will never have good answers to all these questions.
So generally speaking they won't put a big premium on aftermarket engine work.

But at the same time, you never really own a sports car. You own an engine with a car tossed in.
So if there's anything that should command a premium it's not the wheels, headlights, new top, etc.

That was part of my thinking before putting all the money in my engine. My Box can be hit & totaled anytime, but I still own it & can transfer the engine to another Boxster S. Even if it is stolen they usually are found soon.

[flaps10]

My thoughts exactly.

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

[/B]

That was part of my thinking before putting all the money in my engine. My Box can be hit & totaled anytime, but I still own it & can transfer the engine to another Boxster S. Even if it is stolen they usually are found soon.

The insurance company wants the whole car when they total it, not one without the engine. Been there, done that, one less '99 Boxster on the street. I was lucky enough not to have put anything extra on or into the car but a set of later model taillights. I was able to take those off and replace them with the originals. And a set of door sill protectors that stayed. The end result was a very nice insurance payout.

The only way you might transfer the engine would be to buy a car with the same engine before the insurance company took the totaled car and then swap. But you might then find yourself explaining why you wanted the mod'ed engine to the insurance company which has a whole set of complications. Maybe you could convince them there were just reliability changes in which case maybe they'd want the upgraded engine.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

[/B]

That was part of my thinking before putting all the money in my engine. My Box can be hit & totaled anytime, but I still own it & can transfer the engine to another Boxster S. Even if it is stolen they usually are found soon.

Insurance company will be happy to give me less money & let me keep what is left of MY car.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Insurance company will be happy to give me less money & let me keep what is left of MY car.

When I considered buying back my totaled 986 they had over valued it. I think the buyback took 6k out of the settlement, and you can find a perfectly good 2.5 for that without a salvage title and door off the hinge.

They struggle to give you anything to replace your old car but if you ask to buy back your old car they say it's worth majority of what they say a new one is.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Qmulus

I have now seen a couple of very nice Boxster S's with 3.6 and 3.8 liter engine upgrades, and neither seemed to command a premium over nice original cars. Here is the the 3.8 liter. Just building the engine would cost that much. The 2000 S with 3.6 liter (LN Nickies on a 3.2, not a 996 engine) was in excellent shape with LOTS of factory options and tasteful upgrades (PSS9 suspension, 19" wheels), yet it went months before it sold for $15k, which is about half of what just the upgrades cost. I drove that car and it was/is something special. That car got me thinking about buying a Boxster, but it was sold when I was in the market.

I guess I wonder why people don't snap these cars up and/or bring a premium? It seems that if you are spending $20-$30k to get a big displacement engine built and installed that it would add value to the cars, especially when they also likely took care of the known issues in the engine. Thoughts?

Once you get to the $20K price level most people will buy a 996 over a Boxster. Few people get enough test drive miles in a Boxster & 996 to realize the superior driving dynamics of the Boxster. The obvious power shortage of the Boxster being the main difference. Once you realize the Boxster is funnier to drive, why not rebuild the engine to 3.6L to get the power of a 996 in the lighter chassis & the engine will outlive you.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Insurance company will be happy to give me less money & let me keep what is left of MY car.

and you can buy an IMS roller and do the engine swap.

It's like the old days of coach builders before unibody cars.

I see Porsches now like speculative stocks that quickly lose all of their hyped up value until all that is left is the part that actually works.

Which is why I will always buy used, repairs are less of certainty than the merciless depreciation of mass production.

[patssle]

Originally Posted by Qmulus

I have now seen a couple of very nice Boxster S's with 3.6 and 3.8 liter engine upgrades, and neither seemed to command a premium over nice original cars. Here is the the 3.8 liter. Just building the engine would cost that much. The 2000 S with 3.6 liter (LN Nickies on a 3.2, not a 996 engine) was in excellent shape with LOTS of factory options and tasteful upgrades (PSS9 suspension, 19" wheels), yet it went months before it sold for $15k, which is about half of what just the upgrades cost.

WTF. That car was a STEAL if it was built correctly by a professional!

[Smallblock454]

Hard to say. In general any tuning isn't paid when you sell the car.

Also i think 987 cars are more liked by buyers than 986 cars.

At the moment there is a tunes car offered over here in germany. It's a 986 with a 3.6 litre bi turbo engine with 450 hp. Was made by TTP, which is a well known tuner over here in germany. Price is around 26.000 euro - which is around 28.500 USD.

Seller first asked for 36.000 euros. Price is getting down since.

Still not sold.

Porsche TTP Competition GT Turbo 450PS mit TÜV als Cabrio/Roadster in Roding

Regards from Germany
Markus

[D1065]

I own a 2002 Boxster S and I just put 10K into the car and i was curious to know which would be most reliable in terms of brand and specifications if i were to choose a turbo charger or super charger. My car have 34,000 miles.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by D1065

I own a 2002 Boxster S and I just put 10K into the car and i was curious to know which would be most reliable in terms of brand and specifications if i were to choose a turbo charger or super charger. My car have 34,000 miles.

With a 986 an engine swap is the way to go. I'm sure someone would love to buy your 34K S engine and that could cover a decent amount of a 3.6.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by D1065

I own a 2002 Boxster S and I just put 10K into the car and i was curious to know which would be most reliable in terms of brand and specifications if i were to choose a turbo charger or super charger. My car have 34,000 miles.

Check out TPC.

Having said that I am not sure that adding a turbo to an engine not designed for it and with well know weaknesses is a good idea. Plus a turbo is not the best for smooth power delivery which the flat 6 is well know for.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by D1065

I own a 2002 Boxster S and I just put 10K into the car and i was curious to know which would be most reliable in terms of brand and specifications if i were to choose a turbo charger or super charger. My car have 34,000 miles.

I would love to drive one of these to speak from experience because they are rare to come across. But in speaking to my mechanic who works on everything very old and very new from Porsche, he didn't seem too wild about turbos in the 996/986 motor. He had one supercharged 997 in the shop once when I stopped by and he seemed to have a better opinion of these.
the issue I have is the matter of engine durability. The factory took some short cuts in order to produce these engines with enough margin for profit, and they needed that margin badly when the first gen water-cooled engines were sold. They really didn't factor in the extra toll forced induction would add to the equation. Which is why a rebuild sticking with a naturally aspirated protocol is the better route, but of course not cheap.
But neither is replacing a fried engine. The conventional rule of Porsche is that if you want a big power bump, buy a Porsche with a bigger engine if you're worried about budget.