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Old 02-23-2015, 07:14 PM   #1
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2nd gear, hard to shift after tranny oil change

Got transmission oil changed on my recently purchased '02 Boxster. After the oil change, the second gear shift is really hard in the mornings or if the car has been sitting for a long time. Once the car gets going, it is fine. I just avoid switching to 2nd for a few miles, go from 1 to 3.

My mechanic drove it (of course, after it had warmed up) and found no trouble shifting up and down. He suspects a bad/worn synchro but didn't really recommend fixing anything yet.

I thought about oil viscosity etc but if the oil wasn't right, it should affect all gears, right?

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Old 02-23-2015, 09:21 PM   #2
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I changed the oil in my transmission and used what I thought was an improved oil, but it was not. I noticed immediately that that shifts were notchy when it was cold. I'll bet Porsche gear oil was not used. I got used to it, but I never liked it.
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:29 PM   #3
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Depends on how your gears wear I'd think.

Research what weight he used vs recommended. Sounds like when I put gear oil in my Ranger that uses ATF. Not good.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:14 PM   #4
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Thanks, will check on the type of oil used. Is Swepco 201 a reasonable oil for this vehicle?
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:23 AM   #5
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Thanks, will check on the type of oil used. Is Swepco 201 a reasonable oil for this vehicle?
When I had my transmission rebuilt by Gbox that is what Erik recommended that I use, it worked fine.

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Old 02-24-2015, 09:42 AM   #6
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Hey there Guys,

Erik Johnson here, I don't work with GBox any longer but instead opened up The Race Line. A friend was nice enough to pass this on to me. Swepco is a fantastic oil it gives great protection internally, and will give enough friction to the synchronizers so that they do not prematurely wear.

Let me know if I can be of help to anyone here, questions are always welcome, and I am happy to help.

One last thing though, I would recommend staying away from synthetic oils as they tend to make the synchros work harder in these gearboxes. FYI.

Erik Johnson
(970) 344-7761 phone
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:42 AM   #7
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You do not mention how many miles on the 'box.
Interesting that you did not mention the 2nd gear detent fix.
Did you check for deteriorated seals on the vital bearings? You know the yucky finger test through the drain plug hole. It is a bit late if you have changed the oil.
These 6 speeds are a mystery time bomb in some cases. They have the IMSB issue ('sealed' bearing un-seals and dies) and the 2nd gear pop out problem, and CV joint boots go faster than the 5 speed. My issue is that there are no really detailed diy instructions. There is one good write up from itguys but their pdf has been pulled down.
In the near future I intend to do a very detailed and probably humiliating attempt at a diy fix of the 6 speed - 2nd gear +bearings. There is very little 'prior art' to help.
The reason this is difficult/important is:
1.the parts are $2000 -if you can find them/identify them or even know what you are looking at!
2.the tools - a big puller is $300+
3.the shaft is hollow so if you use too much force you buckle it = junk box.
I have a morbid fear that my well publicized humiliation here will simply drive a lot of business to Erik and the other few gearbox gurus.But someone has to do it. So many of these gearboxes are aging out and will be junked if not repaired correctly. I'll start in about 1 month - after I get the rebuilt M96 installed and running!
Watch this space?
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:36 AM   #8
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I had the same experience. Switched over to the OEM oil and the cold shifts are much better. There are many threads addressing this issue.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by sjbox View Post
Got transmission oil changed on my recently purchased '02 Boxster. After the oil change, the second gear shift is really hard in the mornings or if the car has been sitting for a long time. Once the car gets going, it is fine. I just avoid switching to 2nd for a few miles, go from 1 to 3.

My mechanic drove it (of course, after it had warmed up) and found no trouble shifting up and down. He suspects a bad/worn synchro but didn't really recommend fixing anything yet.

I thought about oil viscosity etc but if the oil wasn't right, it should affect all gears, right?

This sounds more like a warn syncho to me, as you are not experiencing any issues in other gears, but I do not recommend waiting, as your repair bill will only start to climb the longer you wait.

If you used a synthetic oil on your last change, get that out quickly. This may at least buy you some time on your rebuild. Once the synchronizer starts to die it will do exactly what you are describing, work well once it is hot but not so well cold. This is due to the fact that the metals swell with heat and the tolerances tighten up again to allow that synchro to get a good bite on the dog ring collar again. It will get worse though.

With enough driving the operating sleeve will start to run into the dog ring on the gear and basically shred it. It again will start with a hard shift and progress to zipping the tips of the teeth off. Then it gets expensive.

Rebuilding these gearboxes is NOT a walk in the park guys. If you have the G86.20 6 speed, you will need a very large press to do this work correctly. (80-100 tons) If you try to pull the gears off with a puller you will either break the puller, or the gear. The G86.20 has interference gears, which means they do not sit on a spline like other gearboxes do.

Some of the other gearboxes, like the 987.20 and earlier 5 speed gearboxes are not nearly as hard to rebuild, but require some good tools, patience and knowledge to do. I can not tell you how many time we get gearboxes that are partially torn down, these are to put it mildly nightmares to work on. Parts can easily get put in backwards, or swapped for a similar part that is incorrect. The work involved labor wise goes up quite a bit, and thus so does the cost.

I am not saying that if you are a competent mechanic that you should not do this work, because it can be a fun experience and give a great deal of personal pride to do the work yourself. I am just saying that a gearbox rebuild may not be the best use of your time, as if it is done wrong, it can be quite expensive in the long run.

Best Regards all, and let me know if you have questions or needs I can help with.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone
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Old 02-24-2015, 12:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjbox View Post
Got transmission oil changed on my recently purchased '02 Boxster. After the oil change, the second gear shift is really hard in the mornings or if the car has been sitting for a long time. Once the car gets going, it is fine. I just avoid switching to 2nd for a few miles, go from 1 to 3.

My mechanic drove it (of course, after it had warmed up) and found no trouble shifting up and down. He suspects a bad/worn synchro but didn't really recommend fixing anything yet.

I thought about oil viscosity etc but if the oil wasn't right, it should affect all gears, right?
Had the same problem. Used an transmission oil that was 75W-90 with API 5. Exact the same problem with 2nd gear directly after the oil change.

Now i will change back to the OEM oil, which is really hard to get over here in germany, because it is only sold in 200 litres barrels. The OEM oil is Shell Spirax S5 75W-90 ATE with an API GL4, GL5 and M1 specification. Have the oil, but the car is only registered from april to october. So i have to wait until april to get results.

Specification: http://www.smithandallan.com/documents/Spirax_S5_ATE_75W-90_%28en-GB%29_TDS.pdf

Last edited by Smallblock454; 02-24-2015 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Erik Johnson View Post
This sounds more like a warn syncho to me, as you are not experiencing any issues in other gears, but I do not recommend waiting, as your repair bill will only start to climb the longer you wait.

If you used a synthetic oil on your last change, get that out quickly. This may at least buy you some time on your rebuild. Once the synchronizer starts to die it will do exactly what you are describing, work well once it is hot but not so well cold. This is due to the fact that the metals swell with heat and the tolerances tighten up again to allow that synchro to get a good bite on the dog ring collar again. It will get worse though.

With enough driving the operating sleeve will start to run into the dog ring on the gear and basically shred it. It again will start with a hard shift and progress to zipping the tips of the teeth off. Then it gets expensive.

Rebuilding these gearboxes is NOT a walk in the park guys. If you have the G86.20 6 speed, you will need a very large press to do this work correctly. (80-100 tons) If you try to pull the gears off with a puller you will either break the puller, or the gear. The G86.20 has interference gears, which means they do not sit on a spline like other gearboxes do.

Some of the other gearboxes, like the 987.20 and earlier 5 speed gearboxes are not nearly as hard to rebuild, but require some good tools, patience and knowledge to do. I can not tell you how many time we get gearboxes that are partially torn down, these are to put it mildly nightmares to work on. Parts can easily get put in backwards, or swapped for a similar part that is incorrect. The work involved labor wise goes up quite a bit, and thus so does the cost.

I am not saying that if you are a competent mechanic that you should not do this work, because it can be a fun experience and give a great deal of personal pride to do the work yourself. I am just saying that a gearbox rebuild may not be the best use of your time, as if it is done wrong, it can be quite expensive in the long run.

Best Regards all, and let me know if you have questions or needs I can help with.

Erik Johnson
The Race Line
(970) 344-7761 phone

GREAT to see that you have ventured out on your own Erik! As I'm sure you've already surmised it is a double edged sword lol, long term very much worth it.

For those out there here is an Unsolicited Recommendation to deal with Erik. I can say from experience he is Very much a straight shooter and follows through completely with what he says will happen.

Probably worth investigating becoming a sponsor here, Pelican and Rennlist, Good luck Erik!!!!!!
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:46 PM   #12
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The car has 112k miles on it. Just talked to the mechanic, he said he used Motul 300 Gearbox 75w 90. I told him that I have been told to stay away from synthetic oil and he was curious as to why. So why?
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:08 PM   #13
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The Porsche OEM oil that Porsche used for the G 86.20 is a full syntethic oil. See above.

The difference is, that it is not a normal MT oil. It's a transaxle oil, because the differential also runs in that oil.

Last edited by Smallblock454; 02-24-2015 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:47 PM   #14
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Markus,
Excellent data.Thank you .
I wonder what the magic modifier is in the specified Shell Spirax you reference ? Friction modifiers?
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:50 PM   #15
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This may help or confuse us?
Shell Spirax S5 ATE 75W-90 ? | ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S | Bob Is The Oil Guy
At least we could do a group buy of only 5 gallons and send the surplus to Markus for his helpfulness :-).
more here:
http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/682030-gear-oil-recommendation-for-08-carrera-s-manual-tranny-2.html
before we get confused - confirm the gearbox is a 6+SPEED (not 5) and has LSD. Otherwise we'll be muddling.All my comments are 6+speed only !
Just a data point -for my 6speed ,Pelican list :
999-917-546-00-M862 Fuchs Titan Sintopoid 75W-90 $14.50 per liter
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/1048/POR_1048_TRANSM_pg1.htm#item0

Last edited by Gelbster; 02-24-2015 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:59 PM   #16
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Wrong oil. Been there done that. Really easy, just change Porsche brand oil before you do anything drastic.
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Old 02-24-2015, 04:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
T
before we get confused - confirm the gearbox is a 6+SPEED (not 5) and has LSD. Otherwise we'll be muddling.
5-speed Manual transmission - '02 Base Boxster, 2.7L.
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Old 02-24-2015, 05:50 PM   #18
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Factory OEM oil. That's all I have to say.
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:29 PM   #19
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It is just Shell/Motul/Castrol/whoever with a Porsche label and the 100%+ Porsche Dealer tax.
If you read some of the links, it is actually much cheaper to buy the specified oil even from Aston Martin dealers!
I just don't like being ripped off because I am clueless about what I am buying.
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:38 PM   #20
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My car had a hard time shifting into 2nd gear. Put in Porsche gear oil. Problem solved. The added cost is a drop in the bucket for how often it has to be changed.

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