The Turbos Are A-Comin'!

[thstone]

Further confirmation that existing normally aspirated 911's will get a turbo (not to be confused with the Turbo model - which will be terribly confusing) along with flat-4 turbo's for the Boxster and Cayman.

The best buy of the normally aspirated era might just be the upcoming Cayman GT-4.

Porsche, you're killing me.



Porsche 911 range goes turbo - BBC Top Gear

[BIGJake111]

Why can't the 911 get the turbo flat6 and the boxster/cayman get the same engine but naturally aspirated. Maybe a flat4 for the base but why even bother making another engine. Giving the 98X cars a naturally aspirated version of the 911s turbo engine will make sense and better define the cars as sporty 2 seaters as well as maintaining a lower power figure than the 911. It would honestly give porsche the right to charge the same for both cars and then let the apples fall where they do.

[RBatsch]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

Why can't the 911 get the turbo flat6 and the boxster/cayman get the same engine but naturally aspirated. Maybe a flat4 for the base but why even bother making another engine. Giving the 98X cars a naturally aspirated version of the 911s turbo engine will make sense and better define the cars as sporty 2 seaters as well as maintaining a lower power figure than the 911. It would honestly give porsche the right to charge the same for both cars and then let the apples fall where they do.

I'd think it would be more difficult to swap engines (remove the 4 and put in a 6) vs slapping a turbo on an NA 6 engine. Porsche probably knows that many would modify their Boxster/Cayman with a Turbo to make it compete better with the 911.

[flaps10]

It's about emissions.

When your foot is not squeezing the life out of the gas pedal, a puny four cylinder can be made to run cleaner.

The same forces that killed the air cooled motor are going to kills large displacement naturally aspirated ones.

I agree, it will be a sad day.

[LAP1DOUG]

Originally Posted by flaps10

It's about emissions.

When your foot is not squeezing the life out of the gas pedal, a puny four cylinder can be made to run cleaner.

This is largely based on classifying CO2 as an "emission" even though all the plants in the forest love the stuff.

Pretty soon the EPA will regulate how many breaths you can take in an hour, and don't even think about "passing gas".

[coreseller]

The more I learn of Porsche's current line-up and read of future offerings, the more I truly doubt the "Bubble" concept of air cooled values.

[Pdwight]

Originally Posted by LAP1DOUG

This is largely based on classifying CO2 as an "emission" even though all the plants in the forest love the stuff.

Pretty soon the EPA will regulate how many breaths you can take in an hour, and don't even think about "passing gas".

My dad said to me 50 some odd years ago "Son if the could the government would tax the very air we breath"

well he is not far off

Dwight

[tomonomics]

Before I start my rant, let me state that I aspire to be a purist, and I'd prefer to drive an NA powered car. But, as the blood flows back into my head.....

Porsche introduced the 911 Turbo in 1975. Forty years ago. FORTY!!! Since then, many people have aspired to own one. Is anyone really surprised that the turbo has found its way into the 'mainstream' Porsche models? Based on reality and fuel standards, the turbo is here and there's no stopping it.

Are the forthcoming turbos a bad thing? This isn't a handicapped 1975 Corvette V8 with 165 horsepower. We are looking at future Boxsters with 300+ HP, in spite of federally mandated fuel economy standards, even if they are 4 cyl. I'd bet that 80% of us wouldn't know or care what was six inches behind our asses as long as it was 300HP and fairly seamless with the power delivery.

The Macan started the 'all turbo' trend:
Macan S: 3.0L Turbo V6 (340 HP)
Macan Turbo: 3.6L Turbo V6 (400 HP)

Are those bad numbers???? Turbo's are coming, whether we like it or not. Stick with your 986, or as the core says, buy a 993.

To me this argument is similar to the one when fuel injection replaced carburetors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any requests for a 4-barrel carb conversion kits for the 986.

-T

[jaykay]

Hmmmm...you have to consider the engine characteristics. Turbos are often not what you want when compared to NA:

Torque curve; power band; useable rpm range; throttle response; engine note etc.

Hope they do a good job of it

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by tomonomics

Before I start my rant, let me state that I aspire to be a purist, and I'd prefer to drive an NA powered car. But, as the blood flows back into my head.....

Porsche introduced the 911 Turbo in 1975. Forty years ago. FORTY!!! Since then, many people have aspired to own one. Is anyone really surprised that the turbo has found its way into the 'mainstream' Porsche models? Based on reality and fuel standards, the turbo is here and there's no stopping it.

Are the forthcoming turbos a bad thing? This isn't a handicapped 1975 Corvette V8 with 165 horsepower. We are looking at future Boxsters with 300+ HP, in spite of federally mandated fuel economy standards, even if they are 4 cyl. I'd bet that 80% of us wouldn't know or care what was six inches behind our asses as long as it was 300HP and fairly seamless with the power delivery.

The Macan started the 'all turbo' trend:
Macan S: 3.0L Turbo V6 (340 HP)
Macan Turbo: 3.6L Turbo V6 (400 HP)

Are those bad numbers???? Turbo's are coming, whether we like it or not. Stick with your 986, or as the core says, buy a 993.

To me this argument is similar to the one when fuel injection replaced carburetors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any requests for a 4-barrel carb conversion kits for the 986.

-T

Will reply in order

- No, Turbo's are good and here to stay. They just add another level of complexity some do not want.

- 100% of us will care what's behind our asses when it comes to servicing and repairs. Talk to someone who's had to pay for a PDK issue.

- I never said to buy anything, just opining that the air cooled market will likely remain strong as a result of Porsche's current direction and air cooled limited availability.

[Jake Raby]

A power adder,like a Turbo may be the only way that a sports car can make respectable power and conform to the ever strengthening grip of CAFE.


Standing by to purchase one each of all the new engines as soon as I can get my hands on them. History proves that geting started with the identification of potential problems as early as possible, is a smart decision.

Can't wait!

[BIGJake111]

I am against the trend. But why does everything have to have more power. If we can have reasonable but more desirable performance without a turbo and maintain the emissions why not?

[OklahomaBoxster]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

I am against the trend. But why does everything have to have more power. If we can have reasonable but more desirable performance without a turbo and maintain the emissions why not?

Look at modern F1. 1.6 liter v6's with a hybrid system and a turbo. they do they same lap times as 2.5 liter v8's with no turbo, and run on 1/3 less fuel. Sure they sound like vacuum cleaners, but its all worth it to save the enviroment right? Well, that's for someone with more power than us to decide, sadly.

[fatmike]

Goodbye throttle response!

Hello turbo lag. But the modern engine doesn't have turbo lag anymore... LOL.

Horrid decision for a Boxster, but it is what it is. We should expect nothing else from Porsche.

Shame they can't just make the car lighter and shrink the engine. 2400 lbs with a 2.5 liter naturally aspirated flat six that revs to 9K. Match it to a short ratio 6 speed and we're in business. That car would be plenty fast and could get great gas mileage.


/

[RBatsch]

Interesting discussion for sure.

My Boxster S is the first NA (non turbo) car I've owned in 30 years. I do enjoy the instant throttle response of the Boxster but I miss the explosion of the turbo. I've driven newer turbo charged cars (my Viggen is a 2002) and they exhibit much less turbo lag. Newer turbo technology (Porsche's VTG), the use of twin turbos (one small and one big) or turbo/supercharger combinations will ensure even throttle response throughout the rev band. I'm all for more power, especially more efficient power. I don't care how many cylinders, displacement, cylinder configuration, etc.

I wish my Boxster's 3.4 put out more than 100HP/L which is very common in a turbocharged engine. My SAAB Viggen makes just over 300HP (with 368 ft.lbs.) while only a 2.3L that gives me 34 mpg on the highway, with minimal turbo lag but explosive power...what's not to like??? Now if only it could handle like the Boxster...

[papasmurf]

Originally Posted by fatmike

Shame they can't just make the car lighter and shrink the engine. 2400 lbs with a 2.5 liter naturally aspirated flat six that revs to 9K. Match it to a short ratio 6 speed and we're in business. That car would be plenty fast and could get great gas mileage./

What would they do with the navigation system, 12 way power and heated seats, 20"+ wheels, etc. Very few buyers would pay the current asking prices for a boxster if it did not include these amenities that are deemed standard for cars in this price range. If they wanted to do the "baby boxster" then I could see it working but then there would be people complaining about the brand being diluted and a car wearing the porsche badge without coming with the kind of options the more expensive models feature. I really wish the baby boxster would have happened but I can see that apart from it being cheaper and lighter, there would not be as much to differentiate it from the boxster to most casual observers and still have strong sales of both cars.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by papasmurf

then there would be people complaining about the brand being diluted ....

that's already here. Porsche will sell 200K cars this year. That will be another million Porsches on the road in just five years. Like a used $6K X5 on Ebay, you'll be able to buy a once $70K Porsche for peanuts. There are not remotely enough used car buyers willing to take on that much supply for out-of-warranty cars that require expensive parts and specialized labor. Unless the seller caves and sells for small money.
Even now, on any given day there are nearly 4,000 water-cooled Carreras on Autotrader for a buyer that needs a 911 in a day. I'm not sure how the brand escapes dilution and ubiquity with an tidal wave of supply no matter what kind of VW turbo engines they're putting in the cars.

[tomonomics]

Agreed, but have you driven a turbo recently? They do a very good job of it, based on the Macan S I was in a few months ago. A very, very good job for a two+ ton vehicle.

[Retroman1969]

I know things are different now, but...
I grew up in the first era of rabid industry changes in the name of economy and emissions and it was not at all done well then: V-8s that were strangled to death, completely gutless V-6s, turbo 4s that had insane turbo lag and were about as smooth as a lake of cobblestones and sounded like a thrashing machine caught in a garbage disposal, and let's not forget the smoky clattering passenger car diesels and the lovely 4-6-8! In the 1980s it was more prestigious and desired to drive a vintage car (pre-1973) than a new one because the quality and driving experience was so much better.

With that in mind, I think I can be forgiven for automatically getting a monster eye twitch when I hear about the projected changes to Porsche's current seamless, heavenly-sounding engines with the near limitless pull. Hopefully my fears will be completely unfounded.

I'm not afraid of change, but I'm always looking at it sideways.

[tomonomics]

"- 100% of us will care what's behind our asses when it comes to servicing and repairs. Talk to someone who's had to pay for a PDK issue. "

Agreed on possible repair issues, but it looks like Jake is already on the case! And I never said I wanted my turbo with an automatic....

In regards to the 993, please note that past performance does not predict future value....