Why are 1st and 2nd gears so harsh - please help

[aBsOlUt]

I've been driving a triple black 2004 BoxsterS for 2 years now and I love every piece of this car.

However, gear changing and the gearbox itself has been a pain in the @ss. It is very hard to describe what actually happens and I've asked different dealers many times to check the clutch because the gear changes are too harsh. Both dealers have reported no problems with the car so sometimes I think its me....

I will give it a shot and try to explain what happens. Support you fire up the car and its still cold. You start driving normally without pushing it. I put first gear and off I go. I never change gears above 4k until the car goes to normal temperature so usually I would go until 2.5-3k before I shift to second. If I depress the pedal about 8/10 times I hear a loudy metal clunky noise coming from the back and I can also feel it - its like the car disengaged the 1st gear pretty harsh and not very smooth. It gives me a feeling of being scared of when and how fast to press the clutch pedal because then the sound does not happen. I shift to 2nd and let the clutch pedal go and the car would kinda bounce harsh like you are about to stall. Ok maybe not that bad but still NOT smooth, I shouldnt have to feel it at all like in most cars I've driven....

8 months ago I asked the dealer to tear the car down and replace the clutch. They said its not that bad but they can replaced it for only the charge of the clutch (200$) and they also replaced the release bearing etc. Still that did not fix the gear engage/disengage problem, the shifting is very harsh.

I've been driving for two years with this "fear" of switching gears. I do not think its the weather temps because it happens at both hot or cold temps. I also dont think its my driving skills either. I am driving my brothers 8 year old Audi TT and the gears are EXTREMELY smooth.

I need part names that could be responsbile or any part that is involved in gear switching so I can ask the dealer to check them and perhaps identify the problem. Showing up at the dealer telling them to check the clutch because gear switching is too harsh does not solve anything as they say all looks good.

Higher gears from 3rd to 6th are very smooth....

Help!

p.s My last post mentioned me switching to an Audi S5. This was cancelled as I love the Boxster too much, but I did test drive the S5 and the gear shifting was incredibly smooth.

[rick3000]

I am not mechanic, but it sort of sounds like the flywheel. Have you ever ground the gears badly? It is odd that only 1st and 2nd are harsh, and not all the gears. Also, once you've shifted does the sound stop, or is it there the entire time your in 1st and 2nd gear?
It could also be that you aren't pushing the clutch in all the way, try putting your seat all the way forward and pressing the clutch down entirely. It sounds stupid, but sometimes it is just something simple.

Merry Christmas!

[Burg Boxster]

For a quick, inexpensive shot.... have the clutch and brakes bled/flushed completely. This will get out any moisture/air in the system.

[deano_123]

i had the same in my manual S, my turbo civic and the old man has the same in his new M3. it is the clutch itself, its made to take abuse and make changes quickly whereas the audis are made to be smooth tourers

i wouldnt worry, hammer the **************** out of it, it wont break

[pbanders]

Most likely, there's nothing wrong with your clutch or tranny. My guess as to the noise you're hearing on engagement is that you're still in the throttle a bit when you're depressing the clutch.

As the other guy said, BMW's and Porsches have much more abrupt clutch engagement than the general crop of "luxury sport" cars. The abrupt transition makes for faster shifting with less slipping, but it also makes smooth driving in traffic difficult. It took me quite a while to learn how to drive my M3 smoothly, and I remember driving an A4 at that time and thinking, "wow, this is a lot easier to drive!".

[aBsOlUt]

My guess as to the noise you're hearing on engagement is that you're still in the throttle a bit when you're depressing the clutch.

Hmmm, that sounds reasonable....maybe afterall it is me and the way I drive the specific car.... I will be driving it again in 2 weeks so I will be experimenting more...


thanks all, anyone else please provide more feedback!

[Houston C4S]

Please don't take this as a personal affront but it sounds like operator error to me.

May I make a few suggestions?

One, I know the manual says not to exceed 4K rpm until warm, but to me that is still too fast when all the bits inside are cold and not at their proper size. Remember there are steel, aluminum, etc. parts in there and each expands at a different rate and all are designed to be operated at a specific temperature. And at that temperature is when all are at the proper size.

So if it were me (and I do this), I would cool it, so to speak, on the 4K rpm bit at first. Instead, consider 2K rpm until the temp needle is well up into the operating range. Gradually increase the engine speed over the next few miles.

The oil is both warmed and cooled by the heat exchanger on the engine and its temperature will lag behind that of the coolant. Give it time to heat up as well.

Remember too, it isn't just the engine you are warming up here. You have a transmission and differential, too.



Secondly, it sounds (as was suggested earlier) as though you are not properly matching the throttle let-off with the declutching process and perhaps engaging the clutch too rapidly afterwards. Not many folks out there anymore understand from a mechanical point of view what happens during this process. If you have never worked on or even looked at the mechanical bits that are involved here, it's hard to understand.

So my suggestion here is to find someone who really knows how to shift smoothly and let them drive your car from cold. If they don't have a problem...

That's why I remain amazed at the wannbe drag racers out there in Boxsterland. Boys and girls, these are not drag cars and you are putting a lot of stress on them by doing the 0-60 thang that they just are not designed to do. Can they do it? Sure. Are they at their finest doing that? No. That's what curvy roads are for. Few cars can touch a well driven Boxster in its element.

Anyway, if you are indeed doing the shifting properly and there is a mechanical problem, I would look for a reason for the clutch to disengage too slowly. And it sounds like your shop has done that by looking at the throwout (release) bearing (and hopefully the related operating components like the master/slave cylinder, etc.).

I hope this helps.

All the best,

- Mark

[racer_d]

If you haven't already done so, you might consider replacing the transmission gear oil. Not sure how old it is, but the newer it is, the smoother the car will shift. I would guess that its actually a gear synchro that is wearing out. Then again, they do wear out, so I wouldn't be suprised. Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the car? How many of those have you put on (ie, did you buy it used or new? do you know how the previous owner may have treated the car?)

To test if a bad synchro, try "double de-clutching" - this is when you would shift from 1st into neutral, let out the clutch, then put in the clutch again and shift into 2nd. More often then not, you won't get a "crunch" when using this method because all the internal parts are moving at the same speed. A grind when shifting comes from 2 parts traveling at different speeds, coming together. The job of the syncrho (synchronizer) is to get the two parts to rotate at the same speed.


I also believe that ALL manual transmission boxsters contain some notchiness in the 1-2 shift. That is likely why the dealer says its "within spec" or "seems ok". You might try to find other manual trans boxsters and test drive them for comparison. I know my 2000 Boxster had a notchiness (although it was 1000% smoother tham my old 911 transmission, so I hardly noticed it)

Be slow and deliberate in all your shifts. I've never driven a Porsche that responded well to rushing a shift.

[pbanders]

Originally Posted by Houston C4S

Anyway, if you are indeed doing the shifting properly and there is a mechanical problem, I would look for a reason for the clutch to disengage too slowly. And it sounds like your shop has done that by looking at the throwout (release) bearing (and hopefully the related operating components like the master/slave cylinder, etc.).

Does the Boxster clutch have a delay valve? My '98 M3 had one of these until I got rid of it, it's a restricted orifice in the clutch hydraulic line that slows the rate of clutch release, supposedly, to make clutch engagement smoother for city driving. I found it made it worse, and also led to bluing of my flywheel and early replacement.

If it's got one, get rid of it.

[djmunsey]

Ask your dealer to check the engine mount. It has one engine mount and 2 transmission mounts. My 2002 Boxster S with 35K miles was making a distinct clunking when I would depress the clutch in the lower gears and it turned out to be a sheared engine mount. It is hard to tell if it is sheared unless you are specifically looking for it . The Boxster clutches are small and weak so not made for drag starts and typically wear out in 30 K miles so treat it with care. Many items on this car are under built and that includes the engine mount. Treat the car like it is fragile because it is. Drag starts will damage the mounts.

[FTD]

Originally Posted by aBsOlUt

Support you fire up the car and its still cold. You start driving normally without pushing it. I put first gear and off I go.

Just another 2 cents, it is my old school belief that it is better for your engine for you to wait until you hear the choke go in before you drive.
Let us know what you found out.

[texwayne]

if you depress the clutch while still on the throttle the rapid release of pressure in the drive train when the clutch disengages will cause a loud "clunk". this only happens in lower gears where the engine RPMs are a lot different from the axle RPMs. in low gears your engine torque is multiplied quite a bit. the engine and transmission twist on their mounts. when you disengage the clutch without releasing the pressure, all the parts that twisted slam back into place. it's not a good thing.

[aBsOlUt]

Again thanks everyone for the responses and feedback.

I will be trying the double release process (1->N->2) and also ask the dealer to check the above mentioned parts.

Happy holidays everyone!

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by djmunsey

Ask your dealer to check the engine mount. It has one engine mount and 2 transmission mounts. My 2002 Boxster S with 35K miles was making a distinct clunking when I would depress the clutch in the lower gears and it turned out to be a sheared engine mount. It is hard to tell if it is sheared unless you are specifically looking for it . The Boxster clutches are small and weak so not made for drag starts and typically wear out in 30 K miles so treat it with care. Many items on this car are under built and that includes the engine mount. Treat the car like it is fragile because it is. Drag starts will damage the mounts.

I was having the same problem with my 2000 2.7. I though it was the engine mounts. Then I did the belt replacement and it went away, as did the annoying whine from the A/C. I can't explain it and it makes no sense, but it did. Go figure.

[trimer]

Originally Posted by texwayne

if you depress the clutch while still on the throttle the rapid release of pressure in the drive train when the clutch disengages will cause a loud "clunk". this only happens in lower gears where the engine RPMs are a lot different from the axle RPMs. in low gears your engine torque is multiplied quite a bit. the engine and transmission twist on their mounts. when you disengage the clutch without releasing the pressure, all the parts that twisted slam back into place. it's not a good thing.

I am having this in my 996. Changed motor mounts today and seemed a little better. How else would you fix this? You say it's not a good thing...what is the fix?