As close as it gets: IMS Save!

[Jake Raby]

Many people who get the guardian will remove it once it alarms and sell the car to an unsuspecting buyer.

It happens all the time.. I never dreamed it would happen, but I've busted at least a dozen people red handed that have done this over the last 3 years of the Guardian being on the market.

That said, Series 9... That engine isn't saved yet. In its current state with metal debris suspended that heavily in the oil, the engine isn't qualified for an LN retrofit. You'll have to carry out extensive oil system flushes, employ a spin on filter adaptor (to omit the bypass system that will send unfiltered oil to the rest of the engine) and then fit with a filter mag.

Even with all that done, the chances of the retrofit component being taken out by even the slightest residual amount of this ferromagnetic material is great. Looks like a good place to employ a competitors product, to me.. Please post the results! :-)

That said, this amount of debris would have set an IMS Alert with an IMS Guardian. The engines and IMSBs I killed here on purpose during the development were often times not as great as this one is illustrated.

If this engine was at my facility, it would come all the way apart and be ultrasonically cleaned. Why? Because I want to maintain my record of 414 IMS Retrofits with never having a post- process failure and if a retrofitted bearing that we install fails later, we aren't just another shop that can throw the finger at the retrofit component as being bad. No retrofit component can live through super heat treated ferromagnetic debris being suspended in the oil, and it won't just take out the IMS Bearing, it'll take out the oil pump, main and rod bearings and all the rest of the internally lubricated components...

The smaller and finer the debris is, the easier it suspends in the oil and the further it travels. I'd rather have chunks in the oil as tiny, microscopic particles.

Yes, we've learned from the mistakes of others.

The Code Of Conduct that our IMS Solution Certified Installers must operate under will not allow them to apply a retrofit component to an engine that has seen a failure of this degree thats been pictured here. One of them did this last year and when he returned the old bearing to register it, his Certification was pulled within 2 hours.

Approach with care and warn the owner. Lots of engines that are "saved", shouldn't be. The perfect engine for a retrofit is the one with a "perfect" IMS Bearing at the time of retrofit.

Also, trust that the outer seal fails at the same rate as the inner seal of the IMS Bearing. As the balls and races lose control the wobbling and vibration take the seals out simultaneously. On the outer side of the IMSB high amounts of engine oil are present to wash the metal off the bearing and into the oil system. This is why the outside of the bearing appeared to be clean. It may have been clean, but the debris is just inside every nook and cranny of the engine, now.

On the innermost side, thats pictured and shows all the material, there's no engine oil supply to wash the metal away and elsewhere into the engine. This is why it appears that all the metal was caught in the shaft, but thats not the case. I have done the forensics on these episodes a few dozen times and can state this with a degree of certainty.

None of this is new.. Its not only common sense, its posted and stated many times over, including here:
http://imsretrofit.com/bearing-already-failing/

[Series9]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

... the engine isn't qualified for an LN retrofit.

Actually, it is.

See here from the LN website:

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Series9

Actually, it is.

See here from the LN website:

Yes, thats a Preferred Installer, not a Certified Installer. Huge difference between the two. Also, that statement also means that its not fully qualified, because it doesn't qualify for a warranty.

From this side of the fence the primary concern is the effectiveness and long term service of the retrofitted bearing. Constantly these bearings are being swapped from engines that were found to be previously failing. Shops are not carrying out pre- inspections before retrofits are done. I find issues with engines and DQ those engines routinely, these things can be anything from a sump full of IMS failure debris, to a chunk of a timing chain roller, of a handful of timing chain wear rail material. At that point, we stop and go into a reactive mode. Thats the other part of the procedure I developed, and every engine is presumed guilty until proven innocent. When I instruct classes all across N. America I ask on the beginning of day #2, who carries out a pre- qualification before carrying out an IMS Retrofit. All year long, I have had TWO people out of about 400 raise their hands. Put clearly- an IMS Procedure isn't completed, as directed, without the engine being pre- qualified first.

Yes, it may be the customer's decision, because it's his car. You can trust that even if that customer makes the decision to take the risk, and the engine experiences a failure that he still won't be happy. What is "ok" today and seemingly going to save him money, is not going to be okay if things don't work out.

As long as he doesn't make phone calls this way, and he is responsible for his own decisions and risks, all is well for everyone except for him.

When I act as the customer's advisor I treat the car like it was my own. That means that at times I have disassembled a complete engine just to clean debris from it when carrying out a retrofit and caught one at mid failure, like this one. It didn't cost him anything, because I knew it would cost me everything if it failed. All he did was sign on the dotted line saying he had ben informed and that he granted us permission to strip the whole thing. Did I make any money? No. Did I lose any money? Yes. Did I retain a reputation and keep my character? Yes. Thats all that matters here.

If the proper steps are carried out after a failure of this level, the engine at least stands
a chance to survive. These steps are extensive and time consuming. If those things are not done, it doesn't stand a chance at living a full life.

The fine line between being a "Hero" or a "Zero" is so faint that its invisible. One second is all that separates the two.

We are all only as good as the outcome of our next job. Some of us care more about that than others, and some of us have had IMS Retrofit bearings fail, and others haven't. IMSR #415 was finished here yesterday, and I post inspect it on Monday, just like I pre- inspected it last Monday.

[BruceH]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

We are all only as good as the outcome of our next job. Some of us care more about that than others........

So very true

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Yes, thats a Preferred Installer, not a Certified Installer. Huge difference between the two. Also, that statement also means that its not fully qualified, because it doesn't qualify for a warranty.

From this side of the fence the primary concern is the effectiveness and long term service of the retrofitted bearing. Constantly these bearings are being swapped from engines that were found to be previously failing. Shops are not carrying out pre- inspections before retrofits are done. I find issues with engines and DQ those engines routinely, these things can be anything from a sump full of IMS failure debris, to a chunk of a timing chain roller, of a handful of timing chain wear rail material. At that point, we stop and go into a reactive mode. Thats the other part of the procedure I developed, and every engine is presumed guilty until proven innocent. When I instruct classes all across N. America I ask on the beginning of day #2, who carries out a pre- qualification before carrying out an IMS Retrofit. All year long, I have had TWO people out of about 400 raise their hands. Put clearly- an IMS Procedure isn't completed, as directed, without the engine being pre- qualified first.

Yes, it may be the customer's decision, because it's his car. You can trust that even if that customer makes the decision to take the risk, and the engine experiences a failure that he still won't be happy. What is "ok" today and seemingly going to save him money, is not going to be okay if things don't work out.

As long as he doesn't make phone calls this way, and he is responsible for his own decisions and risks, all is well for everyone except for him.

When I act as the customer's advisor I treat the car like it was my own. That means that at times I have disassembled a complete engine just to clean debris from it when carrying out a retrofit and caught one at mid failure, like this one. It didn't cost him anything, because I knew it would cost me everything if it failed. All he did was sign on the dotted line saying he had ben informed and that he granted us permission to strip the whole thing. Did I make any money? No. Did I lose any money? Yes. Did I retain a reputation and keep my character? Yes. Thats all that matters here.

If the proper steps are carried out after a failure of this level, the engine at least stands
a chance to survive. These steps are extensive and time consuming. If those things are not done, it doesn't stand a chance at living a full life.

The fine line between being a "Hero" or a "Zero" is so faint that its invisible. One second is all that separates the two.

We are all only as good as the outcome of our next job. Some of us care more about that than others, and some of us have had IMS Retrofit bearings fail, and others haven't. IMSR #415 was finished here yesterday, and I post inspect it on Monday, just like I pre- inspected it last Monday.

Please note the portion in red. This is a stand-up guy.