IMS Question

[818BoxsterS]

Sorry if this has been covered before but I haven't been able to find a clear answer. I have as 2001 boxster S with over 100k miles. A top priority for me was to replace my IMS bearing to the LM Engineering version but recently I have read horror stories where the IMS Bearing failed after it was replaced and I also read that if your bearing lasted past a certain mileage it probably won't fail. Should I or should I not replace the bearing. Any advice would be appreciated.

[peterbrown77]

I don't know what "horror stories" you've heard, but the LN bearing is bulletproof.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by peterbrown77

I don't know what "horror stories" you've heard, but the LN bearing is bulletproof.

I suppose that depends on who you believe. There are plenty of reports of failures after the "upgrade", though LN and their associates always claim that this is due to improper install.

Relying solely on the manufacturers word about the reliability of their product is tough.
Without independent analysis, you either have to take their word for it or take your chances with OEM. I'm in the latter camp.
I'm not shelling out thousands for something that might be better, but that's just me. The best advice that I can give is to read, read, read and come to your own conclusion.

[peterbrown77]

What members here have had THEIR own LN bearing fail? I've read plenty of threads where the OE failed but not one where the ceramic bearing did.

[tomc88]

Originally Posted by peterbrown77

What members here have had THEIR own LN bearing fail? I've read plenty of threads where the OE failed but not one where the ceramic bearing did.

naturally. how many 986/996 cars were sold? 100K+
how many LN bearings have been fitted? a few thousand? and those would also all be new and less likely to have failed
So of course there would be statistically more reports of the original bearing failures vs and after market replacement.

But both combined all still significantly lower than the number of UNREPORTED unfailed (and likely never to fail) original bearings.

[Giller]

How long has the LN bearing been around for? Wondering what the sample size of the replacement actually is?

[thom4782]

Here are the facts. Draw your own conclusions.

Porsche reported in the Eisen class action lawsuit that about 8% of single row and less than 1% of dual row bearings failed in model years 98 through 05.

Out of 15,000+ installations, about 5 LN bearings have failed or three one-hundredths of one percent.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by thom4782

Here are the facts. Draw your own conclusions.

Porsche reported in the Eisen class action lawsuit that about 8% of single row and less than 1% of dual row bearings failed in model years 98 through 05.

Out of 15,000+ installations, about 5 LN bearings have failed or three one-hundredths of one percent.

15000 is a good sample size.....do we know how long they have been around for? Wondering what the proven longevity is.

[jsceash]

Originally Posted by 818BoxsterS

Sorry if this has been covered before but I haven't been able to find a clear answer. I have as 2001 boxster S with over 100k miles. A top priority for me was to replace my IMS bearing to the LM Engineering version but recently I have read horror stories where the IMS Bearing failed after it was replaced and I also read that if your bearing lasted past a certain mileage it probably won't fail. Should I or should I not replace the bearing. Any advice would be appreciated.

I've read most of these posts over time. One member with a good reputation in the industry said there were possibly 2 failure both cause by improper installation. Other failures were due to improper timing procedures or car that were not prequalified for a replacement. IE they had chain issues cam issues or other internal problems.

[818BoxsterS]

Thanks for all the input. As I see, the LM bearing is reliable but I still have one more question: Can I rely on my oem bearing to not fail since it has gone 100k+ miles without an issue or are these failure just a matter of time?

[peterbrown77]

Originally Posted by 818BoxsterS

Thanks for all the input. As I see, the LM bearing is reliable but I still have one more question: Can I rely on my oem bearing to not fail since it has gone 100k+ miles without an issue or are these failure just a matter of time?

It's kind of beside the point. I changed mine at 70,000 miles and it was in perfect condition. Still full of grease even, which is rare. However, every time I hit the key I was waiting for the *BOOM*. It's all about your tolerance for uncertainty. A 100K Boxster is worth not much more than a roller anyway. You could keep driving it until doomsday finally arrives and then wash your hands of it, if you're so inclined. But if it's ruining your *enjoyment* of the car (which is really kind of the point), then change it.

[particlewave]

Hehe...I'm going to drive mine until it blows up, then go electric.

OP, there is no way of knowing. It's a roll of the dice. The real question is, "are you a gambling man, or the play it safe type?"

[Porsche man]

Simple answer. I purchased my Boxster to enjoy driving it. I did not enjoy driving it before installing the LN bearing. I now can't wait to drive it as often as possible.

[Joe B]

The big question for those of us with the non-removable-without-opening-the-engine bearing (I have a 2003 S with a 2006 engine) is what to do, or not to do.

I've decided that about all I can do is drive it and forget about the IMS bearing. I drive the hell out of it, and love to get in and go anywhere. 95,000 miles (60,000 on the new engine) and so far so good. When (or if) the engine blows up, I'll ship the car to Jake Raby !

[pjv]

I think it comes down to how you feel about the risk of it failing. My 04 Tip with low miles seemed a high risk to me (at 8% failure rate), so I had the IMS Solution installed almost a year ago. Since then I have had much more enjoyment from driving the car, so to me it was worth the considerable expense. If I had a car with the dual row or later single row bearing, I probably would not have done the upgrade. And my old single row bearing was still OK, but fairly dry and did not spin freely, so I suspect it was on the way to failure.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by 818BoxsterS

Sorry if this has been covered before but I haven't been able to find a clear answer. I have as 2001 boxster S with over 100k miles. A top priority for me was to replace my IMS bearing to the LM Engineering version but recently I have read horror stories where the IMS Bearing failed after it was replaced and I also read that if your bearing lasted past a certain mileage it probably won't fail. Should I or should I not replace the bearing. Any advice would be appreciated.

Having been one of the earlier guys to do a DIY Jake Raby / LN Engineering Ceramic Hybrid IMS Bearing install I will say this......both Jake Raby / LN Engineering did their homework way more than extensively. I had spent probably 50 hours reading and researching before I decided to go ahead and do the install. 2 of my best friends / guys in my wedding have engineering doctorates and work very high up for aeronautical aviation companies, after sending them links containing info on said bearing and background on the original Porsche IMS bearing approach they said without hesitation to proceed with Jake's IMS Retrofit. IMO if you are concerned about the IMS there is no better solution than to have it retrofitted with Jake Raby's IMS Bearing Retrofit option. Here is what I did while having an issue with the transmission addressed:

IMS, RMS, Tranny R & R Tips - 986 Series (Boxster, Boxster S) - RennTech.org Forums

[DennisAN]

Here's my notes on installing the LN bearing myself:

IMS bearing installation - a new owner's retrospective - 986 Series (Boxster, Boxster S) - RennTech.org Forums

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by 818BoxsterS

Sorry if this has been covered before but I haven't been able to find a clear answer. I have as 2001 boxster S with over 100k miles. A top priority for me was to replace my IMS bearing to the LM Engineering version but recently I have read horror stories where the IMS Bearing failed after it was replaced and I also read that if your bearing lasted past a certain mileage it probably won't fail. Should I or should I not replace the bearing. Any advice would be appreciated.

There have been a few classic single row failures, but keep in mind that over ten thousand engines have been retrofitted using that bearing (20,000 total using the various technologies that we've developed with LN) so a few failures are to be expected.

There have been zero failures of the Classic dual row, Single Row Pro, or IMS Solution retrofit products.

That said, what creates failures i the installer more times than not. Too many shops now treat an IMSB Retrofit like a brake job after doing dozens of the jobs. They fight the clock to do a job faster and faster, to make more and more money. They do not follow protocol and fail to qualify engines for a retrofit procedure. Qualification means to ensure the current bearing is not failing, and anything else in the engine, for that matter. Wear debris suspended in oil can kill an IMSB in 300 miles, and the finer the particles the easy they suspend in oil and the more damage they do.

Here we will break the 400 mark for IMS Retrofits. This is more than double the number that any other shop in the world has done. 399 installs ago we carried out the very first IMS Retrofit using commercially available parts, and that was the very first LN IMSB ever installed. We developed the process and developed the pre qualification procedures, and we do not make the IMSB Retrofit a quick process, and we pre- qualify every engine to be retrofitted and well as cary out an extensive post- process evaluations.

Having installed 400 units isn't what matters most, having 400 installs with ZERO failures is what counts. Done right an IMSB retrofit isn't a quick, simple process.

[Nine8Six]

I think we've understood long ago that the LN bearing is a hundred times better than the OEM bearing. You'd be silly to think that they are more subject to failures than a OEM bearing. Beside, I've never read anywhere that LN guaranty @ 101% that it won't fail.

The truth is ALL mechanical parts are prone to failure. Simply because of what they are (high school physics?) or in most occasions because they were installed by a less than experienced installer.

What is it with people these days?! They think the guys at LN are magicians or just looking for a life-long warranty on their Pcars?

OP, I'm at the shop and a Chinese dude/colleague is just looking over my shoulder and saying this to you "MAN THE F&^% UP" (I teach them slang like this! there a great use of it)

[Giller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

There have been a few classic single row failures, but keep in mind that over ten thousand engines have been retrofitted using that bearing (20,000 total using the various technologies that we've developed with LN) so a few failures are to be expected.

There have been zero failures of the Classic dual row, Single Row Pro, or IMS Solution retrofit products.

That said, what creates failures i the installer more times than not. Too many shops now treat an IMSB Retrofit like a brake job after doing dozens of the jobs. They fight the clock to do a job faster and faster, to make more and more money. They do not follow protocol and fail to qualify engines for a retrofit procedure. Qualification means to ensure the current bearing is not failing, and anything else in the engine, for that matter. Wear debris suspended in oil can kill an IMSB in 300 miles, and the finer the particles the easy they suspend in oil and the more damage they do.

Here we will break the 400 mark for IMS Retrofits. This is more than double the number that any other shop in the world has done. 399 installs ago we carried out the very first IMS Retrofit using commercially available parts, and that was the very first LN IMSB ever installed. We developed the process and developed the pre qualification procedures, and we do not make the IMSB Retrofit a quick process, and we pre- qualify every engine to be retrofitted and well as cary out an extensive post- process evaluations.

Having installed 400 units isn't what matters most, having 400 installs with ZERO failures is what counts. Done right an IMSB retrofit isn't a quick, simple process.

Alright, I'm sold. Sounds to me like a worthwhile upgrade - even just for the piece of mind. Certainly want to enjoy my Box....not worry about every little noise and rattle. What do people recommend as the probable life of the LN? Should it be switched out every 50K? 100k? Thoughts?