Boxster V8

[Nerv]

Sorry to those who have been following this kit, I was not aware that anyone had posted questions on here, I will have to update my forum settings!

We were aiming for Aug but have run into a few snags. We want the kit to be ready soon so clients can have their cars ready for spring! Better to work on the vehicle when the snow is flying and drive when the sun is shining!!

To jarrodblake: Once we have the entire kit ready we will have a better idea how it will be sold. Right now we are focusing on just making a user friendly installation with the minimal amount of tools to install.

We have been modeling the car in 3D to design the necessary parts as per typical OEM technique, this is very time intensive. We also have other daily responsibilities so it is a bit of a balancing act over here.

We didn't want to post too much until we had some real progress to report. Hopefully we will have something to show soon.

Regards,

Dave

[Pdwight]

What engine for sure will you be offering in the kit...or will the kit be without an engine ??

[Nerv]

Engine will be ABZ for sure. We picked up a newer 5V engine and do not like several aspects of that engine design. We think the 4V engine is better, especially for long term reliability.

We can source the parts or the client can in term of the donor engine and donor car parts. That will be an option for certain.

Dave

[DarkStar]

Wait a minute here.... Your saying an Audi V8, is Cheaper and easier to access and produces more power than a LSx? What Planet? Currently there isn't 1 single engine that is being developed that out performs the LSx Platform, And that's not an Opinion. Junkyard 5.3's purchased for 300 dollars are putting out 500hp and doing mid 9 Second Quarter Mile times completely stock with just a mild sized turbo strapped to stock manifolds. People are converting them to carbed, tossing a mild cam on them and pulling 450hp out of them on a daily basis. And when/if you blow it up, there are 100 more in the nearest junk yard for 200-300 dollars... Aluminum Block LS's are virtually the same weight tested as the 3.2L. Iron Block 5.3's have been weighted in at 100lbs more.

There is a reason they are the number one swapped engine. Ford People are doing it, Volkswagen People are doing it, Honda Civic owners are doing it. Its a virtually unlimited platform motor due to its vast quantity and unbeatable performance. Performance no Audi V8 can compete with for any price. And the Reliability of a LSx... 9.5 Second Quarter Mile Porsche 944 on a completely stock block and head and its still rolling strong on 14psi.

Anyway goodluck with it. I saw a pic of a Audi Swapped Boxster, looked awesome. Would not be interested in it myself. I just picked up a LS7 Block for 300 dollars out of a running low mileage car.

Tho I am highly interested in seeing this progress.

[bc993]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Wait a minute here.... Your saying an Audi V8, is Cheaper and easier to access and produces more power than a LSx? What Planet? Currently there isn't 1 single engine that is being developed that out performs the LSx Platform, And that's not an Opinion. Junkyard 5.3's purchased for 300 dollars are putting out 500hp and doing mid 9 Second Quarter Mile times completely stock with just a mild sized turbo strapped to stock manifolds. People are converting them to carbed, tossing a mild cam on them and pulling 450hp out of them on a daily basis. And when/if you blow it up, there are 100 more in the nearest junk yard for 200-300 dollars... Aluminum Block LS's are virtually the same weight tested as the 3.2L. Iron Block 5.3's have been weighted in at 100lbs more.

There is a reason they are the number one swapped engine. Ford People are doing it, Volkswagen People are doing it, Honda Civic owners are doing it. Its a virtually unlimited platform motor due to its vast quantity and unbeatable performance. Performance no Audi V8 can compete with for any price. And the Reliability of a LSx... 9.5 Second Quarter Mile Porsche 944 on a completely stock block and head and its still rolling strong on 14psi.

Anyway goodluck with it. I saw a pic of a Audi Swapped Boxster, looked awesome. Would not be interested in it myself. I just picked up a LS7 Block for 300 dollars out of a running low mileage car.

Tho I am highly interested in seeing this progress.

That's not what he said. He said the 4v was easier and cheaper to source than the 5v . Read through the whole thread. The engine will fit with minimal cutting unlike the LSx. No need for a Kennedy Engineering adapter. 5 speed boxster trans bolts directly to ABZ. Axle geometry will be much better. Renegade's offering is a hack not a kit. Just look at what John (BoxsterLS376) went through fabricating alot. I agree that the LSx produces the most HP per dollar but if it doesn't fit and eats axles the reliability isn't there. I'd be happy with a 350 hp boxster if that can be accomplished with the ABZ. I hope this kit does actually come together but I have my doubts and to me it just sounds like vaporware. As everything is in CAD not aluminum.

[Gelbster]

BC993 thank you- a voice of reason and intelligence.
Thanks also for the comments on the Renegade err ..'kit'.
The M96 desperately needs an alternative engine.The last thing we need is an expensive failure.
As a secondary product -Audi V6 ,yes V6 not just the 8 - so it is easier to fit ?

[BoxsterLS376]

I'm sure the audi motor will do OK, I'm just not a fan~

The nice thing about the LSx swap is the ease of connecting the motor. If you buy the GM crate kit it gives you pretty complete instructions and in reality with about 3 wires and a fuel supply you can get it running so there is a big advantage there.

One misconception that I would like to clear up on the LSx install is the amount of "cutting". Don't get me wrong, there is a bit to cut out, but once you see the process yourself and see what you are cutting out, you will realize that it is not a big deal at all. The biggest portion is making a new cover for it (which I am still struggling with, but haven't spent tons of time on it), although if I had planned a little better I would have made it before the motor was in place.

Hind sight is 20/20 right?

Also regarding the axle failures, really since I put the axle spacers in I have not had any issues and have given it hell in the lower gears a few times~ All seems good~

Right now my conversion has a little over 1,300 miles on it and with the exception of the mysterious "idle higher then expected" check engine light popping up from time to time the car has performed pretty much flawlessly for the last 600~ miles.

Anytime you take a motor from one car and put it into another you are going to run into problems and it is going to take a lot of fabrication and figuring unless someone makes a true "bolt in" kit, which to be honest I don't think will ever happen.

[BoxsterLS376]

So in reading back through this thread a bit I'd like to add a bit more...

Regarding the insurance conversation... I use Progressive and using the website they only allow like an additional $3000 in modification before you have to call them... So I called and long story short I simply insured the car for $40,000~ No question as to what was done etc. just said I have put a lot of money into it and want it insured for $XXX. Done and done.

Also wanted to chime in about the price/platform... First off starting with a base boxster is just dumb. dumb dumb dumb. The S suspension and brakes do OK at best with my car and I think they need to be upgraded to be on par with the performance of the motor. If you put the V8 into a base model you will NEED to upgrade the brakes and suspension or else it will just be dangerous.

For the price difference in base models vs. "S" models it makes no sense at all to "engineer" a kit for the base model. Anyone who is gonna spend the kind of dough to do a V8 conversion won't give a rats ass about saving $3-4,000 on the cost of the car, quit being cheap and get an S model.

Also to say the kit will be more expensive but somehow the motors are cheaper? I went the expensive route and bought a brand new motor from Chevy and all said and done was under $8K, brand new with a warranty.

How much are Audi motors going for anyway?

[DarkStar]

BoxsterLS376, Thank you! Maybe its just me, since I've done chevy swaps on Fords. Big Turbo 4cyl Mitsubishi Swaps on Geo Metros and built cars with drag slicks up to caged toys with 44" Tires, beadlocks and 1 tons. Fab work isn't something new to me. And I've followed your entire build and the cutting you've done is minor! A lil fitment cutting and a new cover and its in.

I do agree with BC, the Renegade "Kit" is a hack. But its pretty well built.

350whp... Enough.... Hardly but to each their own.

I'm not against this proposition. I'm actually highly interested in seeing it grow. Porsche Performance just isn't reasonable. There is no logic in spending a ton of money for hardly any gain when there are options for spending less for more gain.

Like BoxsterLS376 Said, he went the WAYYY expensive route. 8 Grand For only 480hp, But he got a warranty (ehh, not bad). I love his build and hope to speak to him soon regarding my swap. (Yeah you still haven't responded to me on youtube :'( lol) But as I said earlier, Junkyard 5.3L Cast Iron (80lbs heavier than the aluminum block) or 5.3L Aluminum LS Engines, can produce 450whp with no turbo on them. People are doing it every day in old muscle cars by cam, head work, and some tuning. And thats daily driven reliable. You can pickup Stock LS1's with Transmission, Harness and ECU these days for 1200 bucks from Trans Ams, Camaro's, GTO's.

The reason were arguing the fact, is because say you do fail.... Its not that big of a deal. As I've stated a few times, I've been in the car world, building cars that is... for quite some time. Things can go wrong. How much is it to fix said wrong, with which motor. I can think of a few other engines that can produce 1000hp, save TONS of space and are a dime a dozen in the world, But reliable.... Not soo much. Can be! But risky.

[bc993]

[QUOTE=DarkStar;467714]

350whp... Enough.... Hardly but to each their own.

So your current 250 hp has been enough for ?? 14 years? To each their own HA HA.

BoxsterLS376 said:

"Anytime you take a motor from one car and put it into another you are going to run into problems and it is going to take a lot of fabrication and figuring unless someone makes a true "bolt in" kit, which to be honest I don't think will ever happen."

bc993:
As you know I've been following your thread from the start.
WT#! You mean you're not going to give us a KIT?
I'm a Network Engineer - Business Development guy. My fabrication skills are non existent. Have no trouble changing oil, spending a weekend updating suspension parts but that's it. I spend my free time driving my car, golfing, flyfishing in spring/summer and shooting ducks/pheasants in the fall.

BoxsterLS376 said:
Also wanted to chime in about the price/platform... First off starting with a base boxster is just dumb. dumb dumb dumb. The S suspension and brakes do OK "

bc993:
Have to disagree with you. The only thing the S brings now is the 6-Speed trans.
On a 15 yr old car I'm going to replace the suspension 1st thing.
ROW MO30 or PSS9
Front Brakes can be bolted on: 996 or S Calipers (no need for rear imho) just need to update front rotors.
Also GT3 control arms

Now the only other issue for base vs S is the radiators. So I would do exactly the same thing you did and replace 15 yr old radiator with S radiators.

I have found some almost perfect base boxsters with like new interiors and near perfect original paint and it would cost me much more to find an S in that type of condition.

[bc993]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

BoxsterLS376, Thank you! Maybe its just me, since I've done chevy swaps on Fords. Big Turbo 4cyl Mitsubishi Swaps on Geo Metros and built cars with drag slicks up to caged toys with 44" Tires, beadlocks and 1 tons. Fab work isn't something new to me. And I've followed your entire build and the cutting you've done is minor! A lil fitment cutting and a new cover and its in.

.

Yeah sure you did but your boxster still only has 250 HP right?

[GTA_G20]

Just caught this thread. Love the fact of sourcing my own ABZ and buying the wiring adaptors and bolt on accessories.

Not sure why so much negativity? If you want to drop a chevy in go for it. Whats wrong with an alternative?

Keep up the good work . Ingenuity at its best

[bc993]

Originally Posted by GTA_G20

Just caught this thread. Love the fact of sourcing my own ABZ and buying the wiring adaptors and bolt on accessories.

Not sure why so much negativity? If you want to drop a chevy in go for it. Whats wrong with an alternative?

Keep up the good work . Ingenuity at its best

Don't think there is any negativity/animosity here. Just looking for the best alternative to a Porsche engine that is horrible. Great car shi$$y engine.
Granted we all have our opinions on the best solution. But the jury is still out. However, the only proven alternative is the LSx and thankfully BoxsterLS376 took us all along for the ride.

[GTA_G20]

I hear ya man

Some people want to drop 3.4s 3.6s 3.8s in. Some people like LN built motors . Some want the same motor with an ims retro fit. Some want Chevys .

I like the fact that options are being explored.

Just wish Nerv has the chance to share what hes got before getting flamed for what someone else did and why nobody should consider his swap. If this was available two months ago I would've done this over a used 2,5

[patssle]

I was pretty close mentally to wanting to go the V8 route with a local roller that was perfect for it. But it just seems like an ENORMOUS ton of work if you do it all yourself. And I did a 914-6 conversion myself which was a lot of work so I'm not shy from engine swaps. But man it was just so tempting.

[Nerv]

Thanks for joining in the discussion GTA_G20 (and everyone else of course!)

I will share some shots of progress soon, we just need a little more time, we have a very important project to finish for a client that needs to be out the door before serious time can be put back onto the Porsche.

Hopefully after the first kit is out there it will bring in enough to warrant it getting priority over other projects but at this point it has to be considered a expense until proven otherwise.

Here is my scan of the transmission for 3D CAD purposes:



And the front of the engine bay:



The ABZ oil pan:



Once the modeling is complete the production will be relatively easy. I understand the speculation in regards to "Vaporware" but in my experience once you have a professional set of models/drawings, that is a large portion of the work, especially when you have you own CNC machining equipment and software that can machine toolpaths from the data directly like we do.

Accurate 3D scanning has really sped up the process for us and some of the work we have been doing for clients. I'm confident this project will be no different.

Now I know it isn't nearly enough, but it is proof we are working on this! Thanks again everyone for your interest.

This will be a clean professional kit when finished.

[Nerv]

Originally Posted by BoxsterLS376

Anytime you take a motor from one car and put it into another you are going to run into problems and it is going to take a lot of fabrication and figuring unless someone makes a true "bolt in" kit, which to be honest I don't think will ever happen.

That will happen, that is exactly what we are doing. As a matter of fact, I will not let this kit ever go out the door unless it is a true "bolt in" kit.

[Pdwight]

I thin the Audi engine doing 350 HP would be about perfect for our cars, I am no racer but would welcome this if..................;

The Audi kit is truly a bolt in Kit with very minimal cutting and fabrication. Also would the Audi kit allow us to keep our trunk or is that a goner no matter what ??

While we are talking engines why has no one explored or talked about the small V8 engines out of a Cayenne ?

[jaykay]

Cayenne V8! Maybe a good fit but perhaps too expensive???

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by Nerv

That will happen, that is exactly what we are doing. As a matter of fact, I will not let this kit ever go out the door unless it is a true "bolt in" kit.

Go Nerv Go!