Boxster V8

[Pdwight]

Originally Posted by jb92563

I like where this project is going and it may just make those rollers worth a bit more with a nice power boost as well.

I have an S and think that by the time you get this all worked out, I might want to consider this option as the engine ages and needs major repairs.

The plug and play wiring and tranny connection aspect is very good.

If you can get the price around $6k or less I think you will have a real winner as all the aging Boxsters start looking for new engines.

Totally agree, at 5K or just under it becomes very very attractive...350HP would be plenty for me....my mostly stock S has enough power for me

[kcpaz]

I admire your ambition, but coming from someone who has done what you are talking about doing, I think you have a LOT to learn. Just a few things that come to mind...

- The Audi 4.2 V8 did not start maiking anything close to 350hp until mid/late 2000's, and those engines are pretty expensive to buy still. When you say that you will be using engines from a "similar era" as the 2.5 Boxsters, I assume you are talking about the ABZ engines which are indeed very cheap to purchase, but will NOT make that sort of horsepower without doing a custom build or forced induction.

- There is absolutely no reason to make a custom oil pan or to convert the oiling system to dry sump. Besides, where on earth do you plan on mounting an oil tank? Also, the cost of a custom, low production billet oil pan is going to drive up the cost of the conversion considerably, as well as the oiling system with the pump and all of the plumbing.

- How much research have you done into the chassis wiring integration? It's a lot more involved than cutting and splicing a few wires... a LOT MORE...

- What is your plan for a throttle body? If you've looked an the Audi intake/throttle body set up, then it should be obvious that there is no room in the Boxster chassis for the stock set-up. At best, you could completely gut the variable geometry intake system and machine an adapter to move the throttle body to the front of the engine... but even there, you will find that there is no room for the stock throttle body in that location either. Which brings me to engine management. What is your plan there? Using the stock Audi system? It's a fairly simple system to retrofit, but as soon as you start talking about mismatching throttle bodies, then you are talking about an aftermarket system, which will be a deal breaker for people who live in states that have strict emissions laws.

I'm not trying to poopoo on your parade, but I've been down this path before and there is no way you can turn this idea into a profitable one unless you can find people who are willing to spend $15K at a minimum for a conversion that doesn't make that much more power than a Porsche 3.2 or 3.4 engine that doesn't require jumping through so many hoops.

Proof that I know what I'm talking about... http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/25697-boxster-subaru-conversion-interest.html which also has pictures of the Audi ABZ set up

and... http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/37531-subaru-powered-boxster-street-version.html

[mikesz]

Probably VERY difficult to do and not practical, probably defies all rational thought. But really, does anyone know a RATIONAL car guy? A V-8 in a Boxster, this sounds very cool. I remember guys putting Chevy 350's in 914's and there was company in Maine called Kit and Kabootle that sold coversion kits to mount Mazda Rotary engines to Beetle transaxles. I am not affiliated with anybody just another crazy car guy. Keep us posted!

[Pdwight]

1990 - 2009 Mazda MX-5 Habu By Flyin' Miata | car review @ Top Speed

[Topless]

With any conversion, the devil is in the details and there are a LOT of details with these cars. Early on in my ownership I looked hard at conversion options. My goals are:

More power, completely street legal in Commiefornia, and dead nuts reliable. Cost was less important if I could accomplish the other three.

So far, none of the conversions look viable for my needs. Several do make more power and are suitable for track use if you can find a reasonable competition class to run where you won't be classed with Grand Am Cup cars or Ford GTs. Getting a conversion past the CA smog nazis is the greatest hurdle and would probably require a large cash donation to the governor's favorite charity .

Reliability has also been a big issue with most conversions. The new engine runs fine but takes out transaxles or has other gremlins associated with the chassis electronics interface. This results in a lot of quality time in the cold pits diagnosing and repairing problems while all my friends are out driving. This doesn't work for me as I find my joy turning the steering wheel rather than turning wrenches. It nullifies the primary reason for considering a conversion in the first place. I want a reliable car, not a continuous science project.

Solve these issues and you just might have something.

[Nerv]

Ahh the details:

With this conversion being very involved on the electrical side of things, we have been putting quite a bit of effort in this area early on. It looks like we will be able to retain the OBD of the Audi as well as the emissions systems in hopes of appealing to California Boxster owners.

The main challenge has been having the car behave as though the engine was always intended to be in the car. We now are pretty confident we'll be able to do exactly that. Making adapters that will not involve any Porsche wiring alterations is one of our goals, with the exception of the new engine harness of course.

We'll keep you posted as the car comes together.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by Nerv

Ahh the details:

With this conversion being very involved on the electrical side of things, we have been putting quite a bit of effort in this area early on. It looks like we will be able to retain the OBD of the Audi as well as the emissions systems in hopes of appealing to California Boxster owners.

The main challenge has been having the car behave as though the engine was always intended to be in the car. We now are pretty confident we'll be able to do exactly that. Making adapters that will not involve any Porsche wiring alterations is one of our goals, with the exception of the new engine harness of course.

We'll keep you posted as the car comes together.

Great to get an update! I know there are a bunch of us out there quite interested in what we can do with our cars when (not if) the engine dies. Prefer not to make them boat anchors...

Price point will be key - having a somewhat "turnkey" solution for under $15k is probably what is needed. Remember, these are going into cars (especially the older 2.5's) at are worth about half that - less if the engine is dead. That's always been the hard pill to swallow. Putting an engine in a car that is 2x the price of the car. There is a BEAUTIFUL 2003 with 65k miles on the board for like $16k. That's really your competition. Sell the broken car for $4k and for a net out of pocket of $12k, you have a Boxster S in great shape.

I REALLY want something that will be CA legal, and unfortunately suspect there won't be a way to do this in CA. If it was a pre-1996 (OBD I) car, we likely could (see eRod LS engines). But I can't imagine CA letting this one go without MANY hoops. This is really the ONLY reason I haven't done the Renegade conversion.

That said, i'm in line for mine :-)

[CJ_Boxster]

I think Nerv wants to know what we would look for in a kit such as the one hes developing.... Hes not asking you guys to give your 2 cents on engineering....

He probably would like to hear things like, I want it to be affordable from x dollars to x dollars, i would like better low end torque or good linear torque, easy access to common wear items like spark plugs and certain sensors for repair/replacement later down the road.

Dont squander your chance to give valuable suggestions.

[flaps10]

350hp is plenty in my book if it runs every day. In fact it sounds damn fun.

Just a few days ago I was pondering the concept of putting the Porsche 4.2 V8 from the Cayenne in there. Any chance that would fit?

[jaykay]

Well I know an exasperated Cayman racer who would be very interested in this. I think he is on his tenth engine, might try a 3.8 next because he can't keep up with the mustangs and camaros...but will the 3.8 just become another engine with scored cylinders

[bc993]

I have been interested in this solution since driving my gf's boxster in 1999. Look forward to seeing photos of real progress. Will you be at SEMA? Show us something to keep our interest.

[BoxsterLS376]

Interesting choice on the Audi motor! I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread as I am about to do my first conversion using a Renegade kit but if you come up with a better solution I'd be interested to learn more about it!

I decided to go with a GM crate motor and total conversion cost is about $16K right now not including the car, just posted an introduction here: BoxsterLS376 introduction - LS3 conversion :)

Good luck!
J

[Asmooh]

Originally Posted by Nerv

Hello everyone.

We are designing a prototype kit for an engine swap into the 986 Boxster.

As of right now we are orienting the kit toward the 2.5L (non S) models as they are the cheapest to source and are starting to become more and more common with damaged engines. Even without damage the OEM engine is less reliable than other engines, requiring expensive parts and aftermarket attention just to make them reasonably reliable.

As has been seen online, a few V8 engines have been put in this car with varied degrees of success. The kit we are building uses an Audi 4.2L all aluminum V8 from the same period as the vehicle.

This engine will have a CNC machined custom oil pan designed for drysump with integrated bosses for a mount functionally similar to the OEM Boxster engine mount. We are still figuring out the details for the kit as we produce it, but at this point we wanted to get some feedback from Boxster owners as to whether or not anyone would be interested in this package.

The package will include everything it will require to install the engine in the vehicle with no fabrication or modification required to the OEM vehicle. In this respect, the entire swap can be reversed if desired. The engine will produce around 350HP as a target for the first kit, depending on testing with the 5 speed transmission's strength. The engine kit will have a standalone ECU with programming and wiring designed to interface with the OEM VME so that gauges and all vehicle systems will operate as normal. A/C will be retained, as will power steering, with suitable lines and fittings as required.

From our initial calculations, this configuration should weigh very close to the same weight as the OEM engine.

The Audi 4.2L Engine was selected due to it's light weight, short overall length, matching transmission housing bolt pattern and low cost. By replacing the large cast intake of the Audi engine with independent throttle body assemblies, we hope to lower the weight of the engine further and improve throttle response as well as maximum engine output. The dry sump system will also improve engine output and make the package more suitable for serious track use.

We will be posting photos of the test vehicle as we progress. Any feedback is always welcome!

Nerv

when will it be availible?

[Luv2Box]

Will it adapt to a Tiptronic?

[Gelbster]

Nerv,
Here is a different angle on the market prospects for your conversion. My bias is the huge cost/complexity/uncertainty/time of rebuilding a 3.2l M96 +6 speed.I am doing the huge rebuild now. It is way more than the car is worth when I am done. And the performance upgrade -zero !
If your V8 is Calif Smog-legal, easy to fit and less than a rebuild -it is an irresistible option when the M96 dies.
As long as it makes a bit more power and torque ,I would be happy. Be serious ,where on the street can you sensibly/legaly use much more power than a 3.2l M96 ? I would rather improve my driving skills than chase 400hp objectives.
Renegade -look at one -closely & talk to an owner.I did. It is a hack job.
Nerv, thanks for discussing this,it could save many otherwise excellent cars from the M96 disaster heap.

[Luv2Box]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Nerv,
Here is a different angle on the market prospects for your conversion. My bias is the huge cost/complexity/uncertainty/time of rebuilding a 3.2l M96 +6 speed.I am doing the huge rebuild now. It is way more than the car is worth when I am done. And the performance upgrade -zero !
If your V8 is Calif Smog-legal, easy to fit and less than a rebuild -it is an irresistible option when the M96 dies.
As long as it makes a bit more power and torque ,I would be happy. Be serious ,where on the street can you sensibly/legaly use much more power than a 3.2l M96 ? I would rather improve my driving skills than chase 400hp objectives.
Renegade -look at one -closely & talk to an owner.I did. It is a hack job.
Nerv, thanks for discussing this,it could save many otherwise excellent cars from the M96 disaster heap.

Fully agree. In a drag race my '99 Tip won't beat many cars but drag racing on the street is a risky proposition. Put me in the twisties and I'll keep right up with the 911's and sometimes lead them. If I had 300 hp I might really get into trouble and a new crate 2.5L installed is around $15K so an alternative with more hp around that price is tempting and you don't have any of the IMS, RMS, D-chunk, rod bolt and etc. issues.

[KRAM36]

You guys should work the Boxster S angel first. Those cars are worth more money and are ready to handle that amount of HP. If I had a base Boxster and the motor went on it, I'd just part it out.

[Gelbster]

But the Nerv Audi V8 conversion makes a huge difference to the 2.5/2.7 Boxster. Those are the most inexpensive cars as rollers. 3.2l S is much more.
It is very attractive to find a $3k salvage title roller 2.5 ,put Nervs V8 in it and it will be way better than any 3.2l Boxster S for a reasonable price.
Just a suggestion.
Without the Nerv V8 ,who wants a roller 2.5 Boxster -nobody- they just get parted out.
But if the Nerv v8 is not California Smog legal - the market size/opportunity is chopped in half ?
Some weeks ago I posted a link to a local Craigs List Boxster with an incomplete Audi V8 conversion.Nobody seemed interested.

[coreseller]

I worked the SCCA Booth at this past week's Auto Expo, one of the members also working was a mechanic for a German specialty shop and another crew chiefed for a team running BMW's. I learned quite a bit talking with them, one of the tidbits concerned the Audi 4.2 V-8. The mechanic said the timing chain often needs attention between 75 and 100k miles even though it was supposed to last the life of the car. Since it is located at the back of the engine it is an "engine out" deal, 35 plus hours and around $10k cost............ If contemplating an Audi motor I'd deal with this before installing it into anything.

Then they got started on the BMW 4.4 V8....................:ah:

Audi Info:

Audi V8 Timing Chain Service: The Real Story - Redline Speed Worx (RSW) : Redline Speed Worx (RSW)

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

But the Nerv Audi V8 conversion makes a huge difference to the 2.5/2.7 Boxster. Those are the most inexpensive cars as rollers. 3.2l S is much more.
It is very attractive to find a $3k salvage title roller 2.5 ,put Nervs V8 in it and it will be way better than any 3.2l Boxster S for a reasonable price.
Just a suggestion.
Without the Nerv V8 ,who wants a roller 2.5 Boxster -nobody- they just get parted out.
But if the Nerv v8 is not California Smog legal - the market size/opportunity is chopped in half ?
Some weeks ago I posted a link to a local Craigs List Boxster with an incomplete Audi V8 conversion.Nobody seemed interested.

Then you end up with an est. $18,000 salvaged title car. I think some insurance companies won't even insure salvaged cars.

Plus modifying the brakes and suspension cost too.

When my motor goes, I'm dropping a V8 in it. I want min 400 HP too.