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Old 02-28-2014, 05:10 AM   #1
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Detailing advice for a black box

Alrighty, I have a commercial buffer made by Dewalt and an orbital buffer. As some may know from previous posts I work in a body shop so I know how to use the commercial buffer without burning thru clear coat and damaging paint since we use it everyday here. So I have tried just about everything on my car to get the little spider webbing lines out. I have tried all kinds of waxes. It seems no matter what I do to this car I can never get that WOW factor.

This is my first black car which I know black cars are an absolute pain. Am I just expecting too much? Is it just not possible to get this 13 year old paint to really pop in the sun anymore? It looks great on cloudy days

What do you guys recommend?

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Old 02-28-2014, 07:19 AM   #2
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Try Zymol wax. It snapped back my jet black paint on my Jetta from back in the day and I've never bothered using anything else. Try it on your car and never use the spray wand at the car wash or pull the trigger for the full blast and it will last a long time . Couple of coats and you will be amazed. Pepboys or Walmart.


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Old 02-28-2014, 07:36 AM   #3
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I use the Turtle "Black Box" and it makes my 13 year old paint look like it just came out of the show room.

The smart thing about this wax is that it dries black, not white, so if you get it into the stone chips and scratches it will also hide them as well, instead of making them stand out even more like white drying waxes.

If you are really having problems bringing out your paint depth then you need to rid the surface of additional grime, and I would use a clay bar for that, after a thorough washing of course.

This grainy picture does not really capture the depth and intensity of paint shine but you can see the reflectiveness.


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Old 02-28-2014, 08:39 AM   #4
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I use the Turtle "Black Box" and it makes my 13 year old paint look like it just came out of the show room.

The smart thing about this wax is that it dries black, not white, so if you get it into the stone chips and scratches it will also hide them as well, instead of making them stand out even more like white drying waxes.

If you are really having problems bringing out your paint depth then you need to rid the surface of additional grime, and I would use a clay bar for that, after a thorough washing of course.

This grainy picture does not really capture the depth and intensity of paint shine but you can see the reflectiveness.


Yeah, I have used this product. Unfortunately I didn't get the results I wanted. I just wonder if I am being too particular.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:30 AM   #5
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Easy. You need to:

1. Clay bar the $hit out of the paint first. Pardon my French.
use a dishwashing detergent to get the surface full of suds, it will strip the paint free of any waxes or other crap.
If you live near an Advanced Auto they sell Griot's Garage clay bar over the counter.
That's the best deal for clay bar going.
2. Wash the car again to move lift away any remnants that may have broken loose during the claying.
3. Get some halogen lamps from Sears. I actually have an LED light that mounts to my bike helmet. You need to be able to see those swirls as you're using the orbital. I would do the orbital first before going with the rotary.
4. You need an aggressive polish with swirl removing properties like Menzerna IP. Then follow up with the finishing polish to smooth out the minor swirls caused by getting out the big swirls.

Check YouTube on the Menzerna IP (note the overlapping method). I've seen some miraculous restorations. There was one of a black 993 in Spain that was amazing. Not one swirl remained, it looked like it just rolled out of the factory.

Being that it's a black car, and you want to keep those aggresive polishing sessions down to a minimum, you need a hard sealant. This one by Ammo looks interesting and Larry Kossilla is definitely an expert.

As for a final topper I would recommend an anti-static polymer spray like Finish Kare 425 which will make the surface slippery for quick detailing. The easier stuff rolls off the less swirling. And definitely throw away the autostore microfiber towels. I only use the Griot's Garage blue and green long nap towels. Prickly hooks like in standard microfiber towels is overkill for a well maintained surface. And those if those towels are 101% clean they'll scratch the paint with debris that the hooks are stubborn at letting go. I only use those for cleaning leather and carpets.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:16 AM   #6
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Easy. You need to:

1. Clay bar the $hit out of the paint first. Pardon my French.
use a dishwashing detergent to get the surface full of suds, it will strip the paint free of any waxes or other crap.
If you live near an Advanced Auto they sell Griot's Garage clay bar over the counter.
That's the best deal for clay bar going.
2. Wash the car again to move lift away any remnants that may have broken loose during the claying.
3. Get some halogen lamps from Sears. I actually have an LED light that mounts to my bike helmet. You need to be able to see those swirls as you're using the orbital. I would do the orbital first before going with the rotary.
4. You need an aggressive polish with swirl removing properties like Menzerna IP. Then follow up with the finishing polish to smooth out the minor swirls caused by getting out the big swirls.

Check YouTube on the Menzerna IP (note the overlapping method). I've seen some miraculous restorations. There was one of a black 993 in Spain that was amazing. Not one swirl remained, it looked like it just rolled out of the factory.

Being that it's a black car, and you want to keep those aggresive polishing sessions down to a minimum, you need a hard sealant. This one by Ammo looks interesting and Larry Kossilla is definitely an expert.

As for a final topper I would recommend an anti-static polymer spray like Finish Kare 425 which will make the surface slippery for quick detailing. The easier stuff rolls off the less swirling. And definitely throw away the autostore microfiber towels. I only use the Griot's Garage blue and green long nap towels. Prickly hooks like in standard microfiber towels is overkill for a well maintained surface. And those if those towels are 101% clean they'll scratch the paint with debris that the hooks are stubborn at letting go. I only use those for cleaning leather and carpets.
Looks like you just planned out my next project. I will plan to do your recommendation over the next few weeks. I will keep you guys posted.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:43 AM   #7
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Apparently, our cars have a water-based clearcoat. My car had so much haze that I wet-sanded it ( 1500 and 2000?) and was amazed at how soft it was. I've wet sanded cars after a repaint and even though the clear was not yet cured , it was harder than the clear on my Porsche. I then used a glaze, sealant and 2 coats of wax. My car now looks better than new and only a micro mitt touches her delicate skin from now on. high speed air drying of course.
Here in Canada all the body shops have switched over to water-based base coats but still use a catalyzed clear. Damn Porsche for being so 'advanced'! I love catalyzed clear!
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:13 PM   #8
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Personally the best finish you can give a car is Zaino Bros., especially on Black. Check them out, absolutely fabulous product, I won't let anything else touch my cars. I used to have a Black 350Z and people always told me it looked like a big black mirror, and they were right.

Looks stunning on my Slate Grey Metallic Boxster.
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:25 PM   #9
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Personally the best finish you can give a car is Zaino Bros., especially on Black. Check them out, absolutely fabulous product, I won't let anything else touch my cars. I used to have a Black 350Z and people always told me it looked like a big black mirror, and they were right.

Looks stunning on my Slate Grey Metallic Boxster.


I use Zaino as well with good results. Search my thread "detailing the box".


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Old 02-28-2014, 02:31 PM   #10
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Alrighty, I have a commercial buffer made by Dewalt and an orbital buffer. As some may know from previous posts I work in a body shop so I know how to use the commercial buffer without burning thru clear coat and damaging paint since we use it everyday here. So I have tried just about everything on my car to get the little spider webbing lines out. I have tried all kinds of waxes. It seems no matter what I do to this car I can never get that WOW factor.

This is my first black car which I know black cars are an absolute pain. Am I just expecting too much? Is it just not possible to get this 13 year old paint to really pop in the sun anymore? It looks great on cloudy days

What do you guys recommend?

I use a mild polish to remove spider-webs in my black cars. I have had success with Zaino ZPC with a White pad. IF you need more power, then the next step up would be to go with ZPC with a firmer pad; and after that a more powerful polish such as Manzerna Intensive Polish.

I detailed my black car with Manzerna Intensive Polish with a yellow pad, then followed with the ZPC with a finishing pad. You could see your reflection in the paint (it was "candy apple black").

You say you "know how to use the commercial buffer", but easily removing spiderwebs is what a commercial buffer does... maybe try the random orbit instead...?


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Old 02-28-2014, 02:42 PM   #11
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Zaino is a very good product. But after using theirs, and literally every other big name I can tell you that most of these products at the high end are nearly identical. I think I could buy another Boxster (okay maybe a roller LOL) with the left over detailing products I've acumulated. Nearly all mail order boutique brands. And on the other side are the things that are about a 1/3 cheaper and this is no BS, do virtually the same job. In other words I can put forward two identical cars, prep'd equally (that's the key) and you could not tell the expensive treatment from the middle tier product line. The difference is down to concentration. You simply have to use a bit more elbow grease with the less expensive stuff, but you'll get there just the same and it won't take you a whole extra half day either. Frankly, you can't sell things that are too concentrated to the general public or they will try to polish their canvas tops with carnauba wax. That's a big reason why the over-the-counter stuff is milder but still effective.

there are only a few products that I feel are 'proprieatry' meaning their's is the only brand that can produce that result. One is the FK 425 polymer spray I mentioned above, and you can probably lump Klasse All in One in there too. Many many uses for that product, not many proucts have that kind of versatility. Other than that, it's just a matter of putting enough time in with the clay bar so that the surface is super squeaky clean, that you've addressed the swirling with an agrresive polish. After that most sealants do largely the same job and most waxes, carnauba or sythetic, will give you wet gloss. No need to spend $50 on a 4 oz tin of wax. And There's no reason to fill up a boutique brand's online shopping cart with $250 worth of products or any need to buy 6 different products for their "method". Those guys are clever, they know we spare no expense for our babies. Instead, save your money and put it towards high quality buffing and polishing towels. This is where all the damage acutally occurrs (and over-detailing of paint). The going rate for a good towel is $3 each. I've yet to see a towel that won't swirl your paint for $1 or $2 unless you're combining a bunch of steep discount codes during a sale.
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:57 PM   #12
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Looks like you just planned out my next project. I will plan to do your recommendation over the next few weeks. I will keep you guys posted.
a lot of black car lessons going on here:

/DRIVE Clean - YouTube

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