"Shades of 1978"

[Porsche9]

Have any of you read the article "Shades of 1978" in the February Panomara magazine? Are you a Technologist or a Simplifier? I'm a Simplifier and my non-PASM 6 speed manual Boxster S fits my needs perfectly. Even though the Boxster is a better car in almost every way then my old SC I still miss how simple and visceral that car was compared to the Boxster. I just don't ever see myself owning a PDK Porsche or Porsche with all the drivers aids. While they often are superior numbers cars and the Technologist love them for me it is about the driving experience a Porsche offers. I hope Porsche will continue to offer drivers cars but right now I'm a little concerned with the direction Porsche is going.

Are you a Technologist or a Simplifier? Is your Boxster the best Porsche drivers car or will you one day go for a newer more technology laden Porsche?

[BIGJake111]

if i had the money i would move back rather than forward. 550 spyder all day.

[thstone]

Each car I buy is older than the one it replaces. That says it all.

[TeamOxford]

Depends on what rocks your boat.

I have yet to purchase a 21st Century automobile.

Just sayin'.................

TO

p.s anyone remember carburetors?

[Jake Raby]

I own both..

I drive the modern Porsches in bad weather or adverse conditions where real defrost is necessary.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I own both..

I drive the modern Porsches in bad weather or adverse conditions where real defrost is necessary.

Assume you own other Porsches as I do not consider anything in your signature to be truly modern.

[j.fro]

My newest car is my 2000 Boxster (except for the wife's X3). Funny, for a DD, I think I'm a Simplifier - I get the "visceral, driver's experience" thing. However, for my autocross car, I wish I could put in a PDK with sport mode. I don't want PASM or any of the suspension stuff, just the PDK to do the shifting. That would leave me for the steering, gas, and brakes.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by j.fro

My newest car is my 2000 Boxster (except for the wife's X3). Funny, for a DD, I think I'm a Simplifier - I get the "visceral, driver's experience" thing. However, for my autocross car, I wish I could put in a PDK with sport mode. I don't want PASM or any of the suspension stuff, just the PDK to do the shifting. That would leave me for the steering, gas, and brakes.

Usually you just need 2nd gear for autocross. For the ones I've done it get started and leave it in second.

[Davev]

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Assume you own other Porsches as I do not consider anything in your signature to be truly modern.

You don't think we put everything we own in our signatures?

[BIGJake111]

So boxsters are considered as simple, good good, that Thoreau paper is due tomorrow.

[Perfectlap]

I'm not sure I buy that one or the other proposition.

I'd say I'm a tech minimalist. ABS is technology. Minimalists who track their cars never seem to complain about having that butt-saving at their finger tips.
It's a simple fact, the faster you go, the more the danger element goes up, the less time you have to react, the more damage you can do to your equipment. The one constant is that all these cars are going faster and faster.

Perhaps it's the power of computers taking speed to another level but when you have a stock 991S going faster around the N-ring than the out-going 997.2 GT3 it's a new ballgame. As a business You can't give a guy with cash and little or no skill that kind of power without a heavy dose of technology. He'll wreck the engine or himself and if that sticks the buyers will think that the car is dangerous rather than them being the dangerous part of the equation. And all of these buyers want the fastest their money can get them, certainly the track guys who don't want to be the point-by guy.

[Porsche9]

Perfectlap,

We all have/use technology in our cars and I get were Porsche is coming from on making a car safe especially when the level of speed is so high. I'm not saying I want to go back to carburetors nor would I give up ABS brakes but I do want a real drivers cars without all the tech aids. If it means going slower to attain a more enjoyable drive so be it. The Nissin GTR is a high tech car and one that many enthusiast are not all the thrilled about the driving experience as it feels more like being driven. If I want to be driven then I want a fully automated car to avoid the drugery of a rush hour commute but for when I drive for enjoyment I don't want to be driven. In many ways we are seeing the beginning of the end of self driven cars with enthusiasts headed to private race tracks much in the way of the horse when the horse carriage came along.

[dghii]

Actually, I just want my cars to run when I want then to. That would be cool!

[lkchris]

Lots of that technology is hard to live without once you've had it.

My 2001 Basic drives me nuts that I don't have outside temperature display and the OBC mod is high on my list.

OTOH, on my 2012 motorcycle the trip odometer is electronic and there are two of them, so I have to cycle a bit to select the one I want to zero and then I have to press and hold the button for a few seconds for it to happen. On my 2001 motorcycle, it's all mechancal and it takes less than a second to just press it to zero it.

[pothole]

What interests me is that, in the UK at least, for many goods there's a big market for high quality traditional products.

Example: Ovens - oil-fired Aga ovens like this are still very fashionable and the company bangs them out in big numbers and charges plenty for them:



Another example might be a Rolex Oyster-based watch. Very little change over the decade, ancient technology and sold in high volumes.

But somehow, not cars. OK, there are specialists like Morgan selling a small handful of more timeless designs that aren't weighed down by tech for the sake of it, but it's a tiny niche in rthe market.

So why aren't there a few sizeable companies making simpler, more timeless cars and doing well? It's perfectly possible. Even with current regulations, you can have a naturally aspirated sports car with hydraulically assisted steering, elegant styling, minimal bling, traditional values in terms of quality and engineering.

Instead, it's bling and turbo and paddles and shouty styling. Put simply, almost all new cars are unbearably naff / tacky and I just don't get it.

I get that most of them are. Most expensive ovens and watches and whatever are bling. But for most goods, there's also a healthy market for a tasteful alternative - and by that I mean a market for new goods. Yes people pay top dollar for classic cars. But they also pay top dollar for certain antiques. And yet you can buy new furniture that's tasteful. Buying a new car that's tasteful is near impossible.

[Davev]

Originally Posted by pothole

So why aren't there a few sizeable companies making simpler, more timeless cars and doing well? It's perfectly possible. Even with current regulations, you can have a naturally aspirated sports car with hydraulically assisted steering, elegant styling, minimal bling, traditional values in terms of quality and engineering.

While I agree it's possible (but unlikely in US because of burdensome regulations) the sizable companies are in it for the money- not for our desires. Otherwise they would would make 1950's style 550's, and they would be cheap due to depreciated manufacturing costs. HA- I wish...

Just try to buy a stripped down compact diesel truck in US. NOPE- not gonna happen...

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Perfectlap,

We all have/use technology in our cars and I get were Porsche is coming from on making a car safe especially when the level of speed is so high. I'm not saying I want to go back to carburetors nor would I give up ABS brakes but I do want a real drivers cars without all the tech aids. If it means going slower to attain a more enjoyable drive so be it. The Nissin GTR is a high tech car and one that many enthusiast are not all the thrilled about the driving experience as it feels more like being driven. If I want to be driven then I want a fully automated car to avoid the drugery of a rush hour commute but for when I drive for enjoyment I don't want to be driven. In many ways we are seeing the beginning of the end of self driven cars with enthusiasts headed to private race tracks much in the way of the horse when the horse carriage came along.

People make this argument about the GT-R and it's true but you have to be a seriously good driver not to be knocked clear of your socks going 10/10's in that car. That car is also interesting in that it's quicker than both mid and rear engine for those arguing which is better. Point being is not at all a boring car to drive fast.

It's all a matter of perspective. Frankly I find the Boxster/Cayman and 996 to be fairly mild in terms of driver involvement. Relative to an 80's or early 90's sports car it feels downright insulated and disconnected. The 997? No offense, but its boring. I've heard similar complaints about the 997 GT3's from 996 GT3 owners who sold to get into a newer GT3.
My belief is that once you hit a certain level of computer assist, it's shades of grey and imho we hit that level starting at least the 993 in the Carrera and the 2.5 Boxster. They are full-fledged 'modern' and disconnected cars. But at least the water-cooled are least costly to maintain in the long-term, still have manual transmissions and can be driven in any kind of weather without and odometer-phobia that many high ticket air-cooled owners suffer from.

[evan9eleven]

I love my 986 S and it suits my needs for a drop top modern car that still has some edge to it while having nice things like aircon. However, the raw noise and feeling of winding up my Dad's '86 Carrera make for a totally diferent experience altogether. That being said, I like modern comfy cars for my DDs, but long for somethng edgy on the weekend. The answer is therefore, both.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Davev

While I agree it's possible (but unlikely in US because of burdensome regulations) the sizable companies are in it for the money- not for our desires. Otherwise they would would make 1950's style 550's, and they would be cheap due to depreciated manufacturing costs. HA- I wish...

Just try to buy a stripped down compact diesel truck in US. NOPE- not gonna happen...

Sorry what? Car makers absolutely do meet our desires. That's how one car maker sells more cars than another. By more accurately gauging and meeting the desires of car buyers.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by pothole

Sorry what? Car makers absolutely do meet our desires. That's how one car maker sells more cars than another. By more accurately gauging and meeting the desires of car buyers.

True they do but for the enthusiast looking for something simple and truly engaging that is not the case . While there are many enthusiast on this forum there are not nearly enough for the typical manufacter to pay attention as there is no real money in it. Most car buyers want something to meet there everyday needs which generally does not include their car being engaging and perhaps visceral.