"Shades of 1978" - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Porsche9 · 02-16-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I own both..

I drive the modern Porsches in bad weather or adverse conditions where real defrost is necessary.

Assume you own other Porsches as I do not consider anything in your signature to be truly modern.

j.fro · 02-17-2014, 02:08 AM

My newest car is my 2000 Boxster (except for the wife's X3). Funny, for a DD, I think I'm a Simplifier - I get the "visceral, driver's experience" thing. However, for my autocross car, I wish I could put in a PDK with sport mode. I don't want PASM or any of the suspension stuff, just the PDK to do the shifting. That would leave me for the steering, gas, and brakes.

Porsche9 · 02-17-2014, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.fro

My newest car is my 2000 Boxster (except for the wife's X3). Funny, for a DD, I think I'm a Simplifier - I get the "visceral, driver's experience" thing. However, for my autocross car, I wish I could put in a PDK with sport mode. I don't want PASM or any of the suspension stuff, just the PDK to do the shifting. That would leave me for the steering, gas, and brakes.

Usually you just need 2nd gear for autocross. For the ones I've done it get started and leave it in second.

Davev · 02-17-2014, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Assume you own other Porsches as I do not consider anything in your signature to be truly modern.

You don't think we put everything we own in our signatures?

BIGJake111 · 02-17-2014, 07:10 AM

So boxsters are considered as simple, good good, that Thoreau paper is due tomorrow.

Perfectlap · 02-17-2014, 08:04 AM

I'm not sure I buy that one or the other proposition.

I'd say I'm a tech minimalist. ABS is technology. Minimalists who track their cars never seem to complain about having that butt-saving at their finger tips.
It's a simple fact, the faster you go, the more the danger element goes up, the less time you have to react, the more damage you can do to your equipment. The one constant is that all these cars are going faster and faster.

Perhaps it's the power of computers taking speed to another level but when you have a stock 991S going faster around the N-ring than the out-going 997.2 GT3 it's a new ballgame. As a business You can't give a guy with cash and little or no skill that kind of power without a heavy dose of technology. He'll wreck the engine or himself and if that sticks the buyers will think that the car is dangerous rather than them being the dangerous part of the equation. And all of these buyers want the fastest their money can get them, certainly the track guys who don't want to be the point-by guy.

Porsche9 · 02-17-2014, 11:52 AM

Perfectlap,

We all have/use technology in our cars and I get were Porsche is coming from on making a car safe especially when the level of speed is so high. I'm not saying I want to go back to carburetors nor would I give up ABS brakes but I do want a real drivers cars without all the tech aids. If it means going slower to attain a more enjoyable drive so be it. The Nissin GTR is a high tech car and one that many enthusiast are not all the thrilled about the driving experience as it feels more like being driven. If I want to be driven then I want a fully automated car to avoid the drugery of a rush hour commute but for when I drive for enjoyment I don't want to be driven. In many ways we are seeing the beginning of the end of self driven cars with enthusiasts headed to private race tracks much in the way of the horse when the horse carriage came along.

Perfectlap · 02-18-2014, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Perfectlap,

We all have/use technology in our cars and I get were Porsche is coming from on making a car safe especially when the level of speed is so high. I'm not saying I want to go back to carburetors nor would I give up ABS brakes but I do want a real drivers cars without all the tech aids. If it means going slower to attain a more enjoyable drive so be it. The Nissin GTR is a high tech car and one that many enthusiast are not all the thrilled about the driving experience as it feels more like being driven. If I want to be driven then I want a fully automated car to avoid the drugery of a rush hour commute but for when I drive for enjoyment I don't want to be driven. In many ways we are seeing the beginning of the end of self driven cars with enthusiasts headed to private race tracks much in the way of the horse when the horse carriage came along.

People make this argument about the GT-R and it's true but you have to be a seriously good driver not to be knocked clear of your socks going 10/10's in that car. That car is also interesting in that it's quicker than both mid and rear engine for those arguing which is better. Point being is not at all a boring car to drive fast.

It's all a matter of perspective. Frankly I find the Boxster/Cayman and 996 to be fairly mild in terms of driver involvement. Relative to an 80's or early 90's sports car it feels downright insulated and disconnected. The 997? No offense, but its boring. I've heard similar complaints about the 997 GT3's from 996 GT3 owners who sold to get into a newer GT3.
My belief is that once you hit a certain level of computer assist, it's shades of grey and imho we hit that level starting at least the 993 in the Carrera and the 2.5 Boxster. They are full-fledged 'modern' and disconnected cars. But at least the water-cooled are least costly to maintain in the long-term, still have manual transmissions and can be driven in any kind of weather without and odometer-phobia that many high ticket air-cooled owners suffer from.