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Old 10-23-2013, 07:32 AM   #1
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Keep buying cheap tires...

Because you don't need sticky tires in a situation like this...

More Proof That The Best Way To Survive A Crash Is To Avoid It

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Old 10-23-2013, 07:45 AM   #2
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If your Hi-Perf tires allow you to stop 5-10 feet sooner than other tires & thereby avoid a collision anytime during the year or 2 they are on your car they have more than paid for themselves regardless of their cost.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:01 PM   #3
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Personally, I rely on my ABS brakes to stop my car, not my tyre. Your tyres would have to be catastrophically bad for the car to keep sliding forward during a braking maneuver.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:52 PM   #4
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Personally, I rely on my ABS brakes to stop my car, not my tyre. Your tyres would have to be catastrophically bad for the car to keep sliding forward during a braking maneuver.
Stopping distance is a function of grip - even with ABS.

Check this out:

Comparison testing from Tire Rack for different brands/models of tires. All tires were the same size. Performance tires were tested on a 2008 BMW 328i with ABS/non-performance tires were tested on a 2011 BMW 328i with ABS.

The performance tires stop ~18 feet shorter than the non-performance tires in the dry. The difference in the wet is even bigger.

Tires make a huge difference in how your car will perform (e.g., cornering g-load ability varies just as much). Choose wisely.


Non-Performance Tires


Performance Tires
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Last edited by thstone; 10-24-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:07 AM   #5
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Personally, I rely on my ABS brakes to stop my car, not my tyre. Your tyres would have to be catastrophically bad for the car to keep sliding forward during a braking maneuver.
That is an ignorant and stupid attitude.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:38 AM   #6
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That is an ignorant and stupid attitude.
lol ouch, that's a bit of an apocalyptic opinion of s'one's reasoning, Haz!

He is right. The "surface's grip and condition" defines the braking attitude of most street legal vehicles. The chart you see above is plain and simple marketing hooks for guys like yourself.

You'd think an old flat asphalt/conccrete covered with oil, fuel and coolant contaminents (i.e. most roads today) would define the braking power of a TIRE?! You got to be having a laugh mate. ABS tech, brake pad & rotor materials, temp, speed, makes smart 'charts', not rubber lol
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Old 10-25-2013, 03:32 AM   #7
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That is an ignorant and stupid attitude.
It's a popular attitude.

"I don't need winter tires because I have AWD!"
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:18 AM   #8
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Wasn't saying that only tech should be relied on, tires (compound types?) are also very important.

However when it comes to tire figures (charts), this is pretty irrelevant given the conditions of the roads today.

Thstone's charts/figures are usefull on a track associated with a diff abrasivity type, and I am sure this is what only matters to him anyway. However on a bumpy, oily, wet, street, you can kiss the manufacturers for their ABS technologies being somehow more effective than the dumb rubber.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:45 AM   #9
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I think I must be missing something
My interpretation of that video was that the person was on guard, alert and aware of their situation.
They avoided the accident by way of reactive, controlled maneuvering around the accident - NOT simply stomping the brake Pedal???
I think trying to emergency stop in that particular situation would have landed that driver right into the accident or get hit from behind.

I have always told my wife(she gets nervous as a passenger in traffic) that I feel the safest driving my Boxster for all the control it delivers.

My biggest concern is hard emergency Braking. Not that I can't stop soon enough BUT that the Boxster can slow and stop so good that I will get hit from behind
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:17 AM   #10
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My biggest concern is hard emergency Braking. Not that I can't stop soon enough BUT that the Boxster can slow and stop so good that I will get hit from behind
That's why you should always hit the hazard lights when you do any type of panic or hard braking.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:23 AM   #11
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Oh my god. I would be terrified to post some of the ridiculous things ive seen here.

Tires dont help with stopping distance??

Why not ask if you dont know? No one is going to flame you for asking, but to make such an outrageous statement PROVES you have no knowledge on cars, aside from reading brochures.

Stopping distance requires FRICTION! It begins with the pad touching the rotor, and ends with the tires against the road.

ABS and Brake assist are meant to maximize all available friction. ABS in particular helps you when braking force of the pad and rotor OVERCOMES THE FRICTION OF THE TIRE AGAINST THE ASPHALT! If you were to drive with racing slicks and get them to operating temp, you might not even be able to tap into the ABS at city speeds.

Brake assist anticipates a panic stop by measuring how quickly you stab the brake pedal in the first inch or so, and applies the brakes 100% before you get to the end of pedal travel, saving a few feet.

Me? I drive my boxster in all seasons, in all weather, and I take tires very seriously.

I use summer tires with a low treadwear rating from April until November

I use racing slicks at the track and autoX

I use snow tires from December through March.
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:39 AM   #12
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Personally, I rely on my ABS brakes to stop my car, not my tyre. Your tyres would have to be catastrophically bad for the car to keep sliding forward during a braking maneuver.
Take a Porsche Performance Driving school and you will change your mind about this statement.

You can stop a Boxster faster by modulating your brakes to just before the ABS kicks in.

There are a few counter intuitive maneuvers for collision avoidance in the Boxster, that you will learn on the PPDS course.

Knowing the limits of your car and noticing the warnings that indicate impending loss of traction will keep you out of bad situations.

Sticky tires are good since your in full control when you are attached to the ground, and that allows you to avoid bad things in your path without crashing into or spinning out after the avoidance.

Just sayin that the PPDS course is a real eye opener and allow you to drive with much more confidence and give you the skills to avoid collisions and loss of control even on wet, soapy pavement, plus its incredibly fun and you'll make some new friends.
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:44 AM   #13
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edit: to Bigsmoothlee

I understand what you are saying mate, and can see where you are coming from with your knowledge

I've never really wasted my money on expansive performance tires for "street use". I know they will stop you far faster having better/softer compounds and all... but with all the garbage you can find on today's public roads surfaces it's really hard to take the term "performance" seriously

On the track, now that is a totally different story. For the last 15 years I've had my tyres custom manufactured from Dunlop in the UK with 3 different compounds on a single tire. Left/right sides and middle patch are also different compounds depending on which circuit I am practicing/racing on. Not mentioning the rears are harder compound than the fronts.

On the public roads/city... LOL, a good ol'Chinese made tire with ABS will do just fine for me brotha. I'm following speed limits and petrified by fast moving objects everywhere around me :/ Not a huge fan of 'street' anything in all honesty.
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:35 AM   #14
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That's why you should always hit the hazard lights when you do any type of panic or hard braking.
Although you didn't use a smiley, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this post was made in jest. I'm sure you know that your hazards aren't blinking when you brake pedal is pressed.

I'd like to assume that Jinster's comment was made in jest too but somehow I don't think it was, so I'll have to concur with Haz on that one.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:00 AM   #15
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The charts that I posted are not only valid for perfect conditions but also for the imperfect real world conditions that we all drive in daily. The compound of a tire (which is a big factor in how well it grips) makes a huge difference in stopping distance!

Then, you ask, why don't manufacturers sell cars with the most sticky tires if they stop shorter? As we have discussed before, tires are a trade-off. High grip typically comes at the expense of long wear, higher cost, and increased road noise, to name a few. The OEM tires are where the manufacturer felt the trade off's were best. Sometimes this means that a cheaper, quieter, longer lasting tire is selected.

But this doesn't change the fact that the cheaper, quieter, and longer lasting tire is more likely to take quite a bit longer to stop than a more expensive, louder, and short lasting stickier tire. Which was the OP's original point.

Again, choose wisely - or leave extra distance and plan well in advance!
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:10 AM   #16
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To be honest I didn't even think about the hazards not blinking with Brakes.

---Originally Posted by ekam View Post
That's why you should always hit the hazard lights when you do any type of panic or hard braking.---


My knee jerk reaction to ekam was in an emergency braking situation, how the hell could anyone even think fast enough to reach up and hit the hazards.
Maybe if you can snatch flies out of the air with chop sticks
In a highway slowdown situation that makes sense.

I typically, in highway hard braking, pump my brakes a bit, not for traction but to make my brake light flash for attention behind me
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:11 AM   #17
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Tire, suspension, ABS, and other electro-mechanic assist will help but you gotta start with the fundamental that is to watch out the speed you're driving in a safe manner.

How about following the speed limit mandated by your State? The posted speed limit has a lot of engineering behind it.

I see too many people drive in rainy days as if it was dry. I think 95% of the people on the road will not know their stopping distance relative to speed and road condition; I DON'T EVEN KNOW!
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekam View Post
That's why you should always hit the hazard lights when you do any type of panic or hard braking.
Everytime I do that I drop my smartphone & can't finish my text cause my phone gets lost under the seat!
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:06 AM   #19
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That is an ignorant and stupid attitude.





Sorry Haz. Couldnt resist.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #20
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Actually, that video clip demonstrates that the best solution to avoid a crash is not tires, brakes, or anything other than making sure you have an 'escape lane' and clear blind spots at all times.

I took a defensive driving class at 16, and the number one thing they taught us was to always have an open lane to swerve into if you need to, which is exactly what happens in that video. Blocked lane ahead, swerve two lanes over.

If I get boxed in by cars, I always brake until I have room to change lanes in case of an emergency. Although, grippy tires help with high speed swerving lane changes

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