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Old 05-31-2013, 06:57 AM   #1
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Porsche Class-Action Suit: Have Opinions Changed ?

Curious to know, has any of the statistical data that Porsche provided during the class-action suit involving IMSB failure changed anyone's opinion, or better yet, alleviated anyone's concerns about the potential for bearing failure with his or her vehicle ?

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Old 05-31-2013, 07:33 AM   #2
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It did in my case, I hope I wont regret it but Ims bearing change has gone down my to do list. I have a 99 so I understand that mine is dual row so less potential. I will still do it for sure at time of Clutch change. So I still have the intention to do it but later.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:47 AM   #3
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I don't know the details of the P lawsuit but I am not planning any imsb replacement until I do the clutch. I have a 2001 Box base and my IMS Guardian will likely warn me of impending failure. Clutch at 40k miles should last a few more years. Drive on. Be happy. Life is for living.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:48 AM   #4
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How do you know if you have dual or single row bearing and which years are more apt to fail. 2002 S
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:05 AM   #5
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The failure rate released by Porsche as part of the discovery process during the recently settled class-action suit make clear that these cars are not all ticking timb-bombs: dual-row bearings had a failure rate of much less than 1% and single-row bearings between 8-10%. Obviously a dual-row bearing is much less of an issue than a single-row: indeed, the plaintiff's made use of the reliability of that bearing in making out their case regarding the negligent design of the subsequent single-row bearing. Understandably, it is only the single-row bearing that was the subject of the class-action suit settlement: a failure rate of much less than 1% of any engine component, regardless of mileage/maintenance, can hardly be considered surprising.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:24 AM   #6
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I breathed a sigh of relief when I learned that the failure rate of the dual row bearing was less than 1%. I'm just going to monitor metal in the oil filter and do nothing until I have to replace the clutch, but even then, if the bearing is still smooth, I may just remove the seal and leave it in there.

But there are plenty of pictures on the net of destroyed dual row bearings that make me cringe.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:49 AM   #7
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I defey any car manaufacturer to beat the reliabilty of a core engine component with a failure rate of less than 1%. Better still i defey any car manufacturer to maintain that less than 1% failure rate on cars 10yrs+

Plenty of other cars have much higher failure rates of core components within that time scale. It may have been a curious design but to be fair, it wasn't THAT bad after all.
So if i was running dual row, i'd be sleeping easy.

That said, the above relates to dual row bearings, the move to a single row bearing on later cars seems to have been a Friday afternoon decision following a few pints in the local pub which somehow seemed like a good idea at the time.

1% to 10% is a big jump and for me 10% was just that bridge to far.
Each to their own though.
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:29 AM   #8
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It made up my decision and my wife and I decided to go ahead and have the IMS Solution done. My Boxster is a low milage, single row, 3.2.

If I boarded a jet and the pilot came on the intercom and said...."well there is about a 90% chance we will not have a cataclysmic failure with this jet." Sorry, I would turn around and get off the plane immediately! Granted, if the jet goes down it could be the end your life, where a destroyed engine is not.....but it would definitely hit most people's check books and investments pretty significantly. Especially if you account for the lost in future earning potential of the $20,000 spent on a new motor!
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:44 AM   #9
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You should not forget that those estimates were of failures reported to Porsche or addressed by Porsche in their engine warranty program. Those estimates do not include all of the failures that occurred after the warranty period expired. This might be 'tip of the iceberg" estimates for at least the single row bearings if more failures occurred at high mileage or after the fourth year.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:10 AM   #10
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Perfectlap, you are no doubt correct that the numbers are incomplete and therefore undereported, but I would not refer to them as the 'tip of the iceberg'. Porsche's numbers include all cases which ended up at a Porsche dealership (or with a claim or request for coverage after the expiry of the warranty period), regardless of age and mileage. Did some people not take it to the Porsche dealership after failure, or even try to get something out of Porsche? No doubt. But most people would have done one, or both (and there are certainly reported cases where Porsche provided full or partial coverage after the warranty expired - albeit, typically only for those who purchased the car new). So if an additional 25% or even 50% of failures never came to Porsche's attention, it takes 'much less than 1%' to what - maybe 1%? You're right, however, that a 25 - 50% increase on the published numbers for the single-row bearing would make a bad situation worse - ie, if 50%, then 8 - 12% becomes 12 - 15% Still unlikely, but.....

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Old 05-31-2013, 10:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Danger View Post
Curious to know, has any of the statistical data that Porsche provided during the class-action suit involving IMSB failure changed anyone's opinion, or better yet, alleviated anyone's concerns about the potential for bearing failure with his or her vehicle ?
Why don't you quit stirring things up, before you get banned or something?
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:49 AM   #12
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Don't let the 'stats' lull you into a false security- Watch that video! And if you really want your car, take the REASONABLE path- before it's too late. If you can't afford 'the' catastrophe, than choose the solution.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:25 PM   #13
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It was never a major concern for me - meaning after I bought a Boxster and hoped on the forum and found out the IMSB was prone to failure at about 5% it didn't make me freak. My BMW motorcycles had a 3% failure rate of the final drive and I learned to live with it. Even bought a spare in case it happened to me, but never used it. Once I found the early models had a dual row ISMB and a lower failure rate I stopped thinking about it and just decided to treat it as a wear item every clutch replacement.

I did decide - and got my wife's approval - to buy a 911 so I could drive one while I fixed one. And that removed the worry factor tremendously!
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:35 PM   #14
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Each week I fire up "the black hole for dead presidents" hoping my IMS will go and crater my M96.

Really.

I used to worry about it and even lose sleep. Now I can't wait for it to happen and frankly, I'm a little pissed off that it hasn't happened and may never happen while the car is in my ownership.

I need some justification to upgrade the motor to an LS1
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:02 PM   #15
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Each week I fire up "the black hole for dead presidents" hoping my IMS will go and crater my M96.

Really.

I used to worry about it and even lose sleep. Now I can't wait for it to happen and frankly, I'm a little pissed off that it hasn't happened and may never happen while the car is in my ownership.

I need some justification to upgrade the motor to an LS1
I was the same way on my 914. I bought it 4 years ago knowing it had an abused engine that could die any day. Bought a 911 engine about 2 years ago and slowly been working on it - but hoping that a blown VW engine would speed up that project.

The damn thing still runs. But I'm finally to the point of pulling it so it doesn't really matter anymore.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:33 AM   #16
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My issue is spousal. If I approach her for a motor swap now, she will ask, "Why? What's wrong with the motor in it now?"

She does have a point. More HP would be fun, but it does not support my long range, overfunded retirement plan!
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:56 AM   #17
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No change to my opinion. I still plan to have the bearing changed at clutch time. Until then, I have the magnetic drain plug.

Randall, who has an overfunded retirement plan!
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:40 AM   #18
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I've got a 2003 S which I understand will have the single row bearing. For that reason I have decided to have the LN Engineering upgrade installed and have peace of mind for 50k miles (I've got 25k miles on it now) and keep the car for the long haul.
I had my wife convinced to let me buy a similar mileage 2004 911 Turbo Cabriolet (with the GT1 motor in it- so no IMS issues). I was actually pleasantly surprised that you can find nice clean low mileage examples for under $50K but ultimately decided to keep the Boxster. We love the car and it was just too hard to swallow spending an additional $30K on a car that we only use on nice days as I move into retirement and am trying to contain spending.
Now I'm trying to decide if I need to drive all the way to Phoenix to use a shop certified by LN or instead use a local shop (Denver) with limited experience (or no experience) with the IMS replacement/upgrade.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:22 AM   #19
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BruceH: those that gave it some thought and sacrifice early in life AND maintained a low-beta investment portfolio = ME!
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by EssexPorsche View Post
I defey any car manaufacturer to beat the reliabilty of a core engine component with a failure rate of less than 1%. Better still i defey any car manufacturer to maintain that less than 1% failure rate on cars 10yrs+

Plenty of other cars have much higher failure rates of core components within that time scale. It may have been a curious design but to be fair, it wasn't THAT bad after all.
So if i was running dual row, i'd be sleeping easy.

That said, the above relates to dual row bearings, the move to a single row bearing on later cars seems to have been a Friday afternoon decision following a few pints in the local pub which somehow seemed like a good idea at the time.

1% to 10% is a big jump and for me 10% was just that bridge to far.
Each to their own though.

I'm pretty sure that if any mfg has done it, Lexus did in the 90s and early 2000 model years. The 1UZ-FE V8s are bullit proof well in excess of 250k with nothing more than timing belts, water pumps and spark plugs every 80,000ish miles. 12,000 mile oil intervals are no sweat...

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