General IMSB issues - making lemonade of it

[Hayden]

OK, so this is a strange post, and first off, I don't have any problems with my IMS bearing, or anything else for that matter, but I am a brand new owner of an '01 S, and well--seeing that video of the engine going out due to bearing failure the other day was the worst thing I've ever heard.

As a car forum veteran, I've known about these issues for many years, and knew to some extent, the pervasiveness of the failure. What I've found post-purchase from research sounds like the problem is everywhere, which leads to a rather hard-to-deal-with situation, and need some consoling from happy owners. When I discovered the settlement document, I found I was within their range. I don't think, due to the 10 years lapsing, that I have any options with that avenue if I needed to use it, but I can't tell exactly how many cars this covers, or what percentage of boxsters produced are indicated. Is mine particularly prone to failure because it's in the range? How small of a range of cars, and why the hell did they get the reimbursement conditions? I'm still trying to figure out if it's single, or a dual row bearing, or if that makes a difference. Is the '01 as serviceable as the earlier models? It seems I've read both--that it is, and isn't. There is so much info, and polarizing views, that I just noticed the spirits seem a little down and confused by this issue around here, and that sucks for a new owner. It's like walking into a party that's already over.

So, how do we enjoy driving? It's a psychology principle now, if failure could happen to any car at any time, no matter what; so maybe we can build on a positive note here. There is so much that can happen to you that is our of your control every time you leave the house, or exist, in general. If it's going to come down to a monetary thing, then I'd say the same applies, even if you have good insurance. I don't know how else to deal with this. It's the most amazing car I've owned, by far. It's in perfect shape, but I'm afraid to drive it, even though I could probably cover the expense of replacing the engine. It would be a pretty big blow. Almost embarrassing if it did happen. People in my life wouldn't understand the issue, thinking I contributed to the failure. All around, I don't know what else to say. You have to be prepared, I guess. Let's put the preventative maintenance aside, because the fact remains, they can go out again quickly for what appears to be a number of possible contributing factors. Also, it's a pricey proposition to go ahead and do replacements on a car that has such low mileage too, because what if the clutch goes 10k miles later? It seems you have to replace perfectly good, or slightly used stuff all at once to proceed with peace of mind. Not really that great of a scenario.

So, maybe help me get very clear as to what we are looking at, should the problem arise. What is the exact replacement cost of total failure if you get a good indy and a good deal on an engine for a Regular, as well as the S model? If it's a lot lower on the regular one, then maybe I should try and sell this privately for what I paid and "move down." How long is the car typically off the road? That might make it easier to break down into something more digestible for me, such as, "likely additional monthly costs of ownership" compared to the failure rate. Something to make this more acceptable. It doesn't deserve to be a garage queen, though she's worthy of the crown. I want to drive the thing like Ferdinand intended.

She's so gorgeous. Hope you understand my lamentation--and strange introduction. I couldn't pass up this combo 2001 S w/ 18s/grey/black interior. 45k miles, so I don't think it was driven much, which has its plusses and minuses, cause the body is almost flawless with original paint. Even came with the original window sticker tucked neatly into the owner's manual.



I doubt the bearing was replaced already, and I have no idea how to find out. Maybe I could look for marks on various bolts to see if they have been removed before?

BTW- I like it around here. My kinda place. I'll be a regular poster. Wish me luck, and share you're happy stories of ownership, whether you had to pay the price, or not.

[BYprodriver]

Hayden, be thankful you own the funnest device ever created by man & you bought it after all the IMSB information devalued it much more than you will need to pay to have the new improved version installed & free clutch labor is complementary too. Since you are so forum savy you won't have any problems finding all the info you care to read on this subject for which there is no new info.

[thstone]

Welcome and I love that color!

What to do about the IMS bearing is easy - if you worry, then have it replaced and sleep better. If you're not worried, then forget it.

For me, I never worry about it. 126,000 miles and 70 track days on the original IMSB and the engine runs perfect. When the engine blows, whatever the source of the failure, I certainly got my miles and rpm's worth and have nothing to complain about. When it does, I'll swap in a replacement engine for $6K and do it all over again.

Quit worrying and live the dream!

[desert_porsche]

LN Engineering IMS retrofit was $1300 to install including parts.

While they were in there, I had the clutch and RMS taken care of for cost of parts only.

I sleep like a baby.

[ATX_Boxster]

Hayden - I'm also in Austin, and in the same situation as you...especially after seeing that video posted of the IMS failure. I recently purchased a 2000 S w/30K on the odometer. My plan was to wait until new clutch time to have the LN retrofit installed...but now I can't help being nervous.

Frequent oil changes with filter inspections may make me feel better...

Have you found a good local independent repair shop yet? TPWS seems to be very educated on the IMS issue and LN upgrade.

[Zedcat]

Sounds like the issue is really impacting your enjoyment of a great car. I know you dismissed the pre-emptive fix, but that does seem to be your best option. Do the LN upgrade. Be sure you find a good experienced mechanic to do it. My shop keeps both versions of the upgrade in stock so it didn't matter what I had (I had a single row). I bought a 04S with 58k miles. A week later had the IMSB upgrade and clutch done. I don't give it a second thought now and just drive it. Going to the track June 15-16 too.

[southernstar]

Gentlemen, calm down and consider this rationally. You have both purchased incredible cars at incredible prices, in part because of the publicity and yes, paranoia surrounding failed IMS bearings. I am going to suggest that the facts do not support this paranoia and that, as a result, you were the beneificiaries, rather than the victims of the issue.

The failure rate released by Porsche as part of the discovery process during the recently settled class-action suit make clear that these cars are not all ticking timb-bombs: dual-row bearings had a failure rate of much less than 1% and single-row bearings between 8-10%. Obviously a dual-row bearing is much less of an issue than a single-row: indeed, the plaintiff's made use of the reliability of that bearing in making out their case regarding the negligent design of the subsequent single-row bearing. Understandably, it is only the single-row bearing that was the subject of the class-action suit settlement: a failure rate of much less than 1% of any engine component, regardless of mileage/maintenance, can hardly be considered surprising.

So what should you do? ATX, since your 3.2 is a 2000 model year, you should check out the last 5 digits of your engine serial number - if they are 11237 or lower, you are (subject to the IMS having been already replaced) in luck. For those with dual-row bearings, most are prepared to wait until a required clutch replacement before replacing the bearing. Regardless, you should change your oil more regularly than the factory recommends - depending upon type of use, every 3-5,000 miles. You should also install a magnetic drainplug (available at Pelican Parts) and, after each oil change, cut open the filter to check for excessive metal (and other) particles.

Hayden, if a failure rate of 8-10% (and remember, that was regardless of oil-change frequency, etc.) is still causing you to lose sleep, as has already been suggested, upgrade the bearing! You will still have this incredle car that you so clearly love and you will have eliminated your one real concern.

What other factors may contribute to IMS bearing failure, apart from design (single versus dual row)? There have been many theories over the years, but it seems that all agree (and common sense dictates) that longer periods between oil changes is a contributing factor: apart from deterioration of the oil, it allows any particulate matter a longer opportunity to accumulate and do addiitional damage to the engine.

A large amount of stop and go, city driving, is also known to be harder on the oil and the components of any engine, not just these, than longer runs at varying speeds.

In the past it has been suggested that winter storage can contribute to failure, but the numbers released by Porsche do not support this proposition. The highest failure rate (10%) came from the state of California, where one would not expect to see cars stored for the winter. The average mileage for a car in North America is typically reported as being 12000 miles annually. It is probably safe to assume that cars that are stored for half a year would accumulate only half of that - lets say 6000 miles a year. If the owner followed Porsche's recommendations for oil changes - every 10,000 miles or once a year, the winter stored cars would have much more frequent oil changes than the daily drivers. What is more, it is safe to assume that those who stored their cars for the winter have at least one other vehicle which can take up much of the stop and go-to-the mall type driving, even during the summer months.

Owners who store their cars for the winter are showing that they wish to preserve their cars and this, in and of itself, should be a good sign for prospective purchasers. Cars with extremely low mileage, even if not winter stored, are also less likely to have been used principally for day to day, stop and go driving. Again, a positve factor. Hayden, you indicate that your car has virtually flawless original paint and this too is an indicator that the previous owner/s tended to avoid the shopping malls and public parking lots that would be inevitable for a car that was used frequently for stop and go, in-town driving.

It sounds to me as if both of you purchased great cars that you love to drive. Don't let paranoia get in the way of your enjoyment as it isn't necessary and ultimately, it is a relatively easy fix, should you choose to do so.

Cheers!

Brad

[recycledsixtie]

Well said Southernstar. If those who worry about it still you could have the IMS Guardian installed for about half the price of a new ims replacement. Or you could do it yourself for a lot less. I have had the IMS Guardian installed and really don't give it much thought. Ims will be replaced when the clutch goes and that could be another 3-5 years or about another 20k miles. I enjoy my car year round and could not imagine driving anything none Porsche. Life is for living!

[Troutman]

Originally Posted by southernstar

Gentlemen, calm down and consider this rationally. You have both purchased incredible cars at incredible prices, in part because of the publicity and yes, paranoia surrounding failed IMS bearings. I am going to suggest that the facts do not support this paranoia and that, as a result, you were the beneificiaries, rather than the victims of the issue.

The failure rate released by Porsche as part of the discovery process during the recently settled class-action suit make clear that these cars are not all ticking timb-bombs: dual-row bearings had a failure rate of much less than 1% and single-row bearings between 8-10%. Obviously a dual-row bearing is much less of an issue than a single-row: indeed, the plaintiff's made use of the reliability of that bearing in making out their case regarding the negligent design of the subsequent single-row bearing. Understandably, it is only the single-row bearing that was the subject of the class-action suit settlement: a failure rate of much less than 1% of any engine component, regardless of mileage/maintenance, can hardly be considered surprising.

So what should you do? ATX, since your 3.2 is a 2000 model year, you should check out the last 5 digits of your engine serial number - if they are 11237 or lower, you are (subject to the IMS having been already replaced) in luck. For those with dual-row bearings, most are prepared to wait until a required clutch replacement before replacing the bearing. Regardless, you should change your oil more regularly than the factory recommends - depending upon type of use, every 3-5,000 miles. You should also install a magnetic drainplug (available at Pelican Parts) and, after each oil change, cut open the filter to check for excessive metal (and other) particles.

Hayden, if a failure rate of 8-10% (and remember, that was regardless of oil-change frequency, etc.) is still causing you to lose sleep, as has already been suggested, upgrade the bearing! You will still have this incredle car that you so clearly love and you will have eliminated your one real concern.

What other factors may contribute to IMS bearing failure, apart from design (single versus dual row)? There have been many theories over the years, but it seems that all agree (and common sense dictates) that longer periods between oil changes is a contributing factor: apart from deterioration of the oil, it allows any particulate matter a longer opportunity to accumulate and do addiitional damage to the engine.

A large amount of stop and go, city driving, is also known to be harder on the oil and the components of any engine, not just these, than longer runs at varying speeds.

In the past it has been suggested that winter storage can contribute to failure, but the numbers released by Porsche do not support this proposition. The highest failure rate (10%) came from the state of California, where one would not expect to see cars stored for the winter. The average mileage for a car in North America is typically reported as being 12000 miles annually. It is probably safe to assume that cars that are stored for half a year would accumulate only half of that - lets say 6000 miles a year. If the owner followed Porsche's recommendations for oil changes - every 10,000 miles or once a year, the winter stored cars would have much more frequent oil changes than the daily drivers. What is more, it is safe to assume that those who stored their cars for the winter have at least one other vehicle which can take up much of the stop and go-to-the mall type driving, even during the summer months.

Owners who store their cars for the winter are showing that they wish to preserve their cars and this, in and of itself, should be a good sign for prospective purchasers. Cars with extremely low mileage, even if not winter stored, are also less likely to have been used principally for day to day, stop and go driving. Again, a positve factor. Hayden, you indicate that your car has virtually flawless original paint and this too is an indicator that the previous owner/s tended to avoid the shopping malls and public parking lots that would be inevitable for a car that was used frequently for stop and go, in-town driving.

It sounds to me as if both of you purchased great cars that you love to drive. Don't let paranoia get in the way of your enjoyment as it isn't necessary and ultimately, it is a relatively easy fix, should you choose to do so.

Cheers!

Brad

Extremely sound information and advice. I would have said something similar but there are so many similar posts on here and I couldn't type that much.

Mine is a double row bearing and it doesn't worry me at all. If it blows I get it fixed or sell it, simple.
The video of it blowing does bring it home as to just how quickly this can happen and with lack of warning but just imagine the thousands and thousands of journeys similar to this where there has been no drama and returned home with no issues other than fond memories.

Nice car by the way.

[southernstar]

Troutman, I couldn't agree more. Yes, this has been hashed over many times before - but as these are new owners (and I assume new to the site) and, since many of the threads pre-date the numbers released during the class-action suit, I spent the time to write the post. As the owner of a double-row bearing car, I am exactly the same as you - I am putting off replacement of the bearing until I need a clutch replacement and I am not losing any sleep over it. In general, the odds of failure of a double-row are very slim and my car has had annual oil changes each spring, on an average every 4000 miles. If I am so unlucky as to have a failure in those circumstances, I should also be watching for things falling out of the sky!

As to the video - yes it is frightening. But one must keep in mind that it was a single-row bearing and that the owner indicated that he changed the oil every 15,000 km (about 10,000 miles), as recommended by the factory. We don't know when his last oil change was prior to the failure, or if he made use of a magnetic drain plug and/or inspection of the filter after each oil change. We do know that he did not have a guardian installed ( a very good idea, especially with a single-row bearing). We also know that he took this unfortunate experience in stride and, in spite of the cost of rebuilding the engine, has expressed every intention of keeping his car. I mean, if someone who experienced the worst that can happen still loves his car enough to want to keep it, it should say something to the vast majority of us who have not and will not experience the same thing. These are incredible cars that are a sheer joy to drive. If you want something reliable and cheap to maintain, you can always buy a Toyota Corolla.



Brad

[Hayden]

Thank you all very much for the information, time, and concern. I think looking at it as beneficiaries of the depreciation is a good way of putting it. It's a Porsche, and getting into one so cheaply can spoil one's sense of what exactly it is they are driving. I didn't have as much respect for Boxsters until I sat in one and started the engine. It's a Porsche alright.

I'm usually one of those people on another forum that helps folks, and rarely tells them to search, so maybe it's being paid forward. In dealing with newbies to forums for over a decade, and I like to help sum up the latest overview of an issue, and all the most relevant data, because it's more helpful than people realize. Putting together a disjointed, or outdated picture from posts all over the internet can sometimes do more harm than good. There will always be hand-holding on forums, and without that, they die. I've seen it happen on several occasions. Everyone says "beating a dead horse" when new users join and negativity grows until everyone is turned off and leaves cause of a few elitist a**holes. Thanks for being cool, each one of you.

Yeah, the video is partially disturbing due to set and setting. We've got beautiful country, and some people just enjoying one trip of a lifetime and bam, no warning. A mechanical orchestra of inconvenience. If it had been a track vid, I'd have a different view of it. I'm used to watching those and seeing everything go wrong. lol

OK, I'll stop worrying as much ,and just enjoy the car. I am just not a gambler, but life is one. Will just go ahead and do the IMS without the clutch, unless my indy indicates it's worn. Maybe he can tell by pedal travel without inspecting.

One question: has there been a way to determine, based on the latest knowledge, which bearing (single or double row) I might have in an '01 S? Older posts seemed to indicate that at one point everyone thought they had figured it out for that year model, since some do and some don't, but then realized they were wrong in their theory. Oy!

ATX boxster: any local mechanics you've had recommended to you so far? Still trying to track down a list from forum members of people who specialize in these here. The kind of people who can do an IMS swap in their sleep. Saw one person mentioned in an older thread, and I've PMed them for contact info. I'll let you know.

[BruceH]

Very well said guys (Southernstar and Troutman)! I went into my purchase with the idea in my head that this was going to be a $20K purchase. I paid $13,750 for my 2001 S so I still have a ways to go to make it $20K! I am now at 70,000 miles and will probably have the clutch and IMS taken care of in the fall. These are incredible cars for what we are paying so you have to take the maintenance in stride. The best advice is the common one, drive it like you stole it! These cars need to be driven hard which of course is a lot of fun

Hayden, if the IMS issue is causing you to hesitate driving it, then I would invest in the IMS retrofit or solution. You can also do the Guardian for some piece of mind or do what I did and install the basic magnetic drain plug. I would NOT sell it for a base. The S models are a little more robust and in the long run, I think you would regret selling this one. Go and take a drive out towards Fredericksburg, you won't be able to wipe that silly grin off of your face for a week, at least

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

[Hayden]

BruceH--good advice. Personally, I take her down Stratford right in the middle of town. That road is like a gift from god to Austinites. I'm not sure people know much about it, cause they downplayed/smoothed the turns on google maps. I'm a native. Know all the roads.

[BruceH]

Good to hear! Have fun!

[Zedcat]

Hayden, do you have the "101 Projects for your Boxster" book yet? Even if you don't DIY it's a good reference. There is a section on IMSB. The single row has a deeper dish than a dual row- but you have to remove the trans to see it. As you likely know the earlier cars had dual row and the later the single row. Did you have a carfax before you bought the car? It would posibly indicate if the car had an early engine replacement as there were some that did and could affect which your car has. As posted earlier the shop (Houston) I used does a lot of these and they had all the parts and tools. It's only one data point but my single row bearing when they removed it was intact after 58k miles in 9 years. It did have some wear and a slight wobble compared to a new bearing. No way to know for sure how much longer it would have gone, but sure it wasn't imminent.

[ATX_Boxster]

Guys - I'd also like to say thanks to everyone for taking the time to help out some new owners by responding to this post.

The responses make great sense and definitely provide some reassurance that there probably is nothing to worry about.

I plan to drive my car in the manner it was made to be driven and address IMS upgrades when I'm much further down the road.

Hayden - my car has already been into TPWS for some preventative work: inner and outer CV boots, plugs, coil packs, oil, and tranny fluid change. Basically the 30K service minus a few bits. TPWS is Porsche only and they seems very knowledgable about IMS replacement. They even have examples of both single and dual row bearings that have failed in their office. They have LN bearings in stock and like to take the angle of helping the client save $ on labor when possible. (Like timing the bearing replacement when it's time for a new clutch...) They also like to educate their clients about the cars and what to expect. I definitely learned a lot when I was there.

TPWS**** - Austin's**** Independant Porsche Specialists

Here's a picture of my tinker box:



Not too shabby for a 13 year old vehicle!

Cheers to two new Boxster owners in Austin!!

[Johnny Danger]

I struggle over this issue myself. The Dangermobile has only 20k original miles, and more money tied up in mods than I care to admit to. I've put this issue off for quite awhile (namely because I'm not able to drive it much), but I have a tentative appointment to have the IMSB retro-fit performed in a week or so. For the longest while, my vehicle was considered a prime candidate for IMS failure by virtue of the fact that it's used so infrequently. Interestingly, the latest statical data that came out of the class-action suit against Porsche suggests that my vehicle is in fact less likely to suffer IMS failure than previously thought. Here's the paradox. If I don't do the retro-fit, the concern for failure will forever remain in the back of my mind. On the other hand, I know that when the bearing is finally extracted, it will prove to be in near flawless condition.

[rp17]

Hayden that's a nice looking car and if your not going to drive the snot out of that car let me do it. I will fit it into my schedule.

Good advice posted here. Enjoy your car its a beauty. Welcome to the forum

[Perfectlap]

Potential IMS failure is like stressing about being broke in retirement: you can do something about it or can you waste time worrying and take no action. But there is a third option that fits the typical American approach: neither take action nor give it a second thought. Don't worry be happy. Everything is gonna be alright. no woman no cry.

[ATX_Boxster]

(Tried to make this post earlier this evening along with a picture of my car - but I think that I'm too new here to post with pictures. My apologies in advance if it shows up as a double post.)
_______

Guys - I'd also like to say thanks to everyone for taking the time to help out some new owners by responding to this post.

The responses make great sense and definitely provide some reassurance that there probably is nothing to worry about.

I plan to drive my car in the manner it was made to be driven and address IMS upgrades when I'm much further down the road.

Hayden - my car has already been into TPWS (in N. Austin on Lamar) for some preventative work: inner and outer CV boots, plugs, coil packs, oil, and tranny fluid change, and brake flush. Basically the 30K service minus a few bits.

TPWS is Porsche only and they seem very knowledgable about IMS replacement. They even have examples of both single and dual row bearings that have failed in their office. They have LN bearings in stock and like to take the angle of helping the client save $ on labor when possible. (Like timing the bearing replacement when it's time for a new clutch...) They also like to educate their clients about the cars and what to expect. I definitely learned a lot when I was there.

Good luck with your new car!