Upgrade 986 or buy 987?

[Johnny Danger]

I'd be willing to bet that the next I dyno the Dangermobile, it's within 10 or 15 horsepower at the wheel with any version of the 987 .

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

My 1998 was 205 HP My new car is 320HP my math holds up my man.

Yes if you use your formula, but if you RTFP you'll see that he's comparing a 02 S to a 07/08 S which equates to ~45hp...still significant, but not the dramatic difference between your 98 base and a late model Spyder or S which is apples to figs within the context of Pcars. The comparison he's making is not such a huge jump. He'll get to sixty .5 seconds quicker, maybe do a little more than .5 seconds better through the quarter. From a handling standpoint, I'd bet the differences are even smaller, but then most of my "late model" Pcar experience is in their rear engined machines.

[Ghostrider 310]

Shad you can make that argument with many Porsche to Porsche comparisons, I'm sure a 944 will corner pretty damn close to a 986 at speed and it's decades old. In actual driving though, the 986 feels quite a bit quicker than a 944. Forty five real horses, (not horses calculated by custom part manufacturers) is a lot! Especially when the figures are Porsche's.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

Stoney no worries I wasn't trying to be a d bag either but truly you can feel that kind of power increase, especially when the cars are nearly identical in weight.

Definitely! I've taken a few laps as a passenger in my friends 2009 and I agree that 100hp is a big deal.

[mountainman]

I have one of each and they are both great cars, but if you appreciate power and handling, which I do, the 987 is a vast improvement. I find myself taking it over the 986 and the 996 as well. I am sure you can do enough mods to make the 986 perform as well if you spend the money, but it would also be unlikely that you would be able to recoup it when you trade or sell. My opinion costs you nothing and it is worth every penny

[Brockmeister]

I was talking to my Indy the other day and we were talking performance upgrades. He stated, in order to get any kind of real gains out of a 986, you would spend about 6k. That would be a nice chunk of change towards the next car of your choice.

[Perfectlap]

I've driven the 987S and my 986S (fabspeed headers and exhaust) back to back. I don't think the power difference is enough to justify the jump on the basis of power.
986 to the Boxster Spyder or 981S totally different but so is the new monthly check I'd have to be writing. LOL.

Personally I'm not crazy about the 987 styling up front. I like the rear styling of the 987 over the 986. The strangely shaped 987 side intakes never grew on me. The new 981 front end is proabably the nicest of any Porsche sold today imo. Very reminiscent of the Ferrari Cali.
So on styling I would not make the jump either. Also, the 987s are going to be much cheaper by this time next year because of the 981. With the 991 pricing in the nosebleeds the Boxster pool of Porsche buyers is going to get bigger. On the time sheets, there's not much difference between the new Boxster S and a standard Carrera.

I guess its like the old saying upgrade your Porsche every other series. And not having a monthly payment is probably the best Porsche experience short of shooting through the foxhole at N-ring.

[Ghostrider 310]

Just to be clear, if my 986 had not "bit it", I'd still have it, the car was paid in full and IMO the 986 is plenty of sports car. I like the Spyder body better than the new car or 986 which only means I made the right choice for me but I can certainly appreciate all of the Boxster iterations. I like having the specialized bits like a LSD, suspension tuned and lowered at the factory and seats you don't normally see in a Boxster.

[Paul]

A seat of the pants dyno always notices which car has more torque, not hp. A motor with 320 horsepower and 200 ft lbs of torque feels like a dog compared with a motor with 320 hp and 295 ft lbs of torque.

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I've driven the 987S and my 986S (fabspeed headers and exhaust) back to back. I don't think the power difference is enough to justify the jump on the basis of power.
986 to the Boxster Spyder or 981S totally different but so is the new monthly check I'd have to be writing. LOL.

Personally I'm not crazy about the 987 styling up front. I like the rear styling of the 987 over the 986. The strangely shaped 987 side intakes never grew on me. The new 981 front end is proabably the nicest of any Porsche sold today imo. Very reminiscent of the Ferrari Cali.
So on styling I would not make the jump either. Also, the 987s are going to be much cheaper by this time next year because of the 981. With the 991 pricing in the nosebleeds the Boxster pool of Porsche buyers is going to get bigger. On the time sheets, there's not much difference between the new Boxster S and a standard Carrera.

I guess its like the old saying upgrade your Porsche every other series. And not having a monthly payment is probably the best Porsche experience short of shooting through the foxhole at N-ring.

And this is my point...The differences between the 2 cars being compared which again is the 02S vs. 07S is not a huge step. Same platform with some go faster bits here and there and a more refined interior. If it were me, I'd keep the 02 S (I already have one which is paid for), keep the five grand and continue to save for a 981 for the next 2 years, by then the savings account should be more substantial, the 02 S should still be worth at least ~12K and a used 981 should be more reasonable price wise. value to performance wise, it is hard to make a case for taking on a car payment or any additional outlay for 45 hp and a half a second to sixty, you're still in the same basic car and it's still many years from new. Every other series indeed is the way to go!

R

[johnsimion]

Originally Posted by dascar

In the spring, I plan on either selling my 02 Boxster S (Speed Yellow, 33k miles) and getting an 07-08 987 Boxster S (Speed Yellow, of course - budget of around $26k) OR spend $6k in upgrades on my car such as new turbo front bumper, side valances and perhaps an exhaust mod. What do you guys think? Is newer better? More HP, real glass window vs. plastic, a tad more interior room plus all new dashboard, sexier body and it already has the cool front bumper with big air intakes as well as non-fried egg headlights. However, I could save myself $5k or so by keeping my car and have a pretty unique 986.

Your car looks really good and it only has 33K miles. No offense intended, but your car is nevertheless highly depreciated versus a 987. You'd be money ahead to put in the LN Engineering upgrade to the IMS and put on a new convertible top with glass window, and then drive it for a very long time. You will get your money's worth in the form of very low cost driving, but you also won't be losing very much more depreciation. Comparatively speaking the 987 is going to depreciate like crazy. Personally I wouldn't go for all the other mods because you won't see any return on your investment, but if you really like them, you are still far better off financially to do the mods you like and keep the car. You could lose $6000 in depreciation in just a year or two on a 987, not to mention the much bigger original outlay.

Of course the 987 has a lot more power, so you could figure it will go 0-60 a second or two faster. IMHO not worth the extra cost. Same rationale why a Miata is such a popular sports car: Like your car now, a Miata is relatively cheap and you can drive it at 10/10s and enjoy the heck out of it for a low cost. If you have 320 hp, you simply can't drive at 10/10 except on a track. Don't believe me, tomorrow go for a drive and ask yourself how often you could actually take advantage of another 100 hp due to cops and traffic. Around here, I love to take my 08 Cayman around freeway on-ramps ... and have to watch out lest I rear-end some slowpoke!

[Perfectlap]

p.s.

add the PORSCHE decals for $80. In person, it makes a nearly decade old car look totally different. I added the Cayman R front bumper decal.
A nice jolt of classic updating. Ferry Porsche had graphics on his personal one-off 2.7

[jesseborgelt]

I thought long and hard about what modifications I was willing to make to my 2000 Boxster. I went with modifications that improved the car while not limiting the marketability. The fact is that I am not going to drive the car until either it or I die… I hope. My vehicle ownership history shows that I keep a car about three years, and I doubt this one is going to be different. I have heavily modified cars before, only to get burned to a crisp on trade in. Did the money invested during my stretch of ownership justify the costs involved… that is up to the individual, in my case I would say no (looking back).

[dascar]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

p.s.

add the PORSCHE decals for $80. In person, it makes a nearly decade old car look totally different. I added the Cayman R front bumper decal.
A nice jolt of classic updating. Ferry Porsche had graphics on his personal one-off 2.7

Wow! That 986 looks amazing!

[milliemax]

Originally Posted by dascar

In the spring, I plan on either selling my 02 Boxster S (Speed Yellow, 33k miles) and getting an 07-08 987 Boxster S (Speed Yellow, of course - budget of around $26k) OR spend $6k in upgrades on my car such as new turbo front bumper, side valances and perhaps an exhaust mod. What do you guys think? Is newer better? More HP, real glass window vs. plastic, a tad more interior room plus all new dashboard, sexier body and it already has the cool front bumper with big air intakes as well as non-fried egg headlights. However, I could save myself $5k or so by keeping my car and have a pretty unique 986.

Keep your Porsche !! You loved it when you bought it ??? Save and invest your money as you will need it sooner than later. Time Flies !!! You can take this advice......to the BANK.

[KevinH1990]

I'm just going to buy a 981.

Since I'll probably use the same strategy I used when I bought my 986 (wait until it is 7 years old) I have some time to kill.

Lately, when I get the itch for a new car, I just add a mod to the one I have. It makes the car seem fresh to me. If fact, my 04 glass window top is on the way from a dismantler right now. I hope this "fix" lasts a couple of years.

If I run across a well-priced set of clear headlamps, I may add those too.

That stripe looks nice as well.

[jacabean]

Every time i get the bug for a 987 S 3.4 (more power) . I take a ride in my EVO X gsr with 2,500.00 in mods it makes 325hp at the wheels and god help the boxster if i ever do the Ohlins and Akrapovik .

[ChrisZang]

As someone who just went over to "the dark side", why don't you also look at a 997?

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Paul

A seat of the pants dyno always notices which car has more torque, not hp. A motor with 320 horsepower and 200 ft lbs of torque feels like a dog compared with a motor with 320 hp and 295 ft lbs of torque.

Pure nonsense. Obviously if a car's got more mid-range torque then it's going to feel gruntier in the mid-range. But if you're revving the car out it's the peakier engine that can feel more lively while the torquier engine feels flat and breathless towards the top of the rev range.

When you're on it, it's power that makes a car feel quick and indeed makes a car quick. That's why a four-pot diesel car with 200hp but 300lb/ft isn't any quicker outright than the same car with a 200hp, 200lb/ft petrol engine.

What it comes down to is this. What would feel quicker all other things being equal? A car with with 200hp and 300lb/ft, or one with 300hp and 200lb/ft. When you're dawdling around at low revs, the first car would obviously have more guts. But outright, the second car would be hugely quicker. And since we're talking about sports cars, not limos, that's what counts.

The whole torque = acceleration thing is a myth. And that's why F1 cars have 900hp and 250lb/ft and not the other way round!

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by pothole

Pure nonsense. Obviously if a car's got more mid-range torque then it's going to feel gruntier in the mid-range. But if you're revving the car out it's the peakier engine that can feel more lively while the torquier engine feels flat and breathless towards the top of the rev range.

When you're on it, it's power that makes a car feel quick and indeed makes a car quick. That's why a four-pot diesel car with 200hp but 300lb/ft isn't any quicker outright than the same car with a 200hp, 200lb/ft petrol engine.

What it comes down to is this. What would feel quicker all other things being equal? A car with with 200hp and 300lb/ft, or one with 300hp and 200lb/ft. When you're dawdling around at low revs, the first car would obviously have more guts. But outright, the second car would be hugely quicker. And since we're talking about sports cars, not limos, that's what counts.

The whole torque = acceleration thing is a myth. And that's why F1 cars have 900hp and 250lb/ft and not the other way round!

Are you sure about your equation ? It's always been my understanding that torque is a product of horsepower, and the only place that it really matters is what's at the "wheel" and not necessarily at the "crank".