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Old 12-02-2012, 10:12 PM   #1
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Secondary Air Injection Cutoff Valve

I have been getting an occasional P0410 alarm this past year so I thought I would make a run at replacing the SAI Cutoff Valve today but fell way short. I removed the alternator thinking I would have access through the front side of the motor, but no way, not with my hands. I removed the cross-over tubes on the air induction manifolds, still not enough access to the valve. I don’t see an easy way to remove the manifolds with the motor in the car. Does anyone have any experience and recommendations on how to get to the SAI Cutoff Valve, without dropping the motor?

Thanks

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Old 12-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #2
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The 986 repair manual suggests that one can replace the valve without removing the engine. See PM

BTW: Do you see P1411 too? Seems like you would see codes for both banks if the cut off valve was failing.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:11 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jager View Post
I have been getting an occasional P0410 alarm this past year so I thought I would make a run at replacing the SAI Cutoff Valve today but fell way short. I removed the alternator thinking I would have access through the front side of the motor, but no way, not with my hands. I removed the cross-over tubes on the air induction manifolds, still not enough access to the valve. I don’t see an easy way to remove the manifolds with the motor in the car. Does anyone have any experience and recommendations on how to get to the SAI Cutoff Valve, without dropping the motor?

Thanks
It won't be easy to remove right side intake manifold but I'm sure it can be done. I have my left side off for 987 air cleaner housing install, it was no fun but required to install 987 Air box. I will remove my intake cross-over tubes to see if I can give you any tips. Maybe the most encouragement I can give you is now would be a good time to remove your injecters & have them cleaned & tested. You will love the improvement, considering your mileage.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:11 PM   #4
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It won't be easy to remove right side intake manifold but I'm sure it can be done. I have my left side off for 987 air cleaner housing install, it was no fun but required to install 987 Air box. I will remove my intake cross-over tubes to see if I can give you any tips. Maybe the most encouragement I can give you is now would be a good time to remove your injecters & have them cleaned & tested. You will love the improvement, considering your mileage.
Jager, looks like the only hope of doing this with manifolds in place is to remove oil filler tube since you already have alternator out. Happy Holidays
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #5
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Jäger, you can get the intakes off without dropping the motor, but its not much fun...
I've been there but only for the reason to change the intake manifold gaskets... I remember pulling the AOS, Oil filler hose, alternator all out.... not much fun and lots of patience.
I call those "the parts from hell"
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by thom4782 View Post
The 986 repair manual suggests that one can replace the valve without removing the engine. See PM

BTW: Do you see P1411 too? Seems like you would see codes for both banks if the cut off valve was failing.
I have seen P1411 only one time with the P0410 on about five CEL in the past six months.

I just replied to your PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:10 PM   #7
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Jäger, you can get the intakes off without dropping the motor, but its not much fun...
I've been there but only for the reason to change the intake manifold gaskets... I remember pulling the AOS, Oil filler hose, alternator all out.... not much fun and lots of patience.
I call those "the parts from hell"
Might be easier to drop the motor... the work will probably take the same amount of time.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:11 PM   #8
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Jager, looks like the only hope of doing this with manifolds in place is to remove oil filler tube since you already have alternator out. Happy Holidays
Everything is back together again... I put it all back together to regroup. I will do a little more research and make another run at it when I get brave (or crazy).
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BYprodriver View Post
It won't be easy to remove right side intake manifold but I'm sure it can be done. I have my left side off for 987 air cleaner housing install, it was no fun but required to install 987 Air box. I will remove my intake cross-over tubes to see if I can give you any tips. Maybe the most encouragement I can give you is now would be a good time to remove your injecters & have them cleaned & tested. You will love the improvement, considering your mileage.
Thanks for the tip on the injectors, I might replace all of them while I'm in there.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:18 AM   #10
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So even with the alternator out, you couldn't get to it? I have to change my alternator this winter, and I was going to try the replace the air cut-off valve at the same time. So your post does not give me much confidence.

I will be taking pics as I do the alternator, so what ever I come up with I will post.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:56 AM   #11
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I have been seeing both the P0410 and P1411 codes for about three weeks. You've convinced me to have my local shop do the work.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:43 AM   #12
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I chased the P0410 and P1411 based CEL problem in my car for a year. I took the car to two independents. The first replaced a lot of parts for $$$. The problem persisted. The second spent a number of hours smoke testing and ultimately suggested that I take it to the dealer. Finally, the dealer found and solved the problem.

I think the dealer succeeded because it tested the system to see if it could hold a vacuum in the first place. It turned out in my car that the vacuum reservoir was the problem area and the CEL problem disappeared once it was replaced.

My experience suggests that one find a way or have a shop test to see if the secondary system can hold a vacuum before beginning to change out parts. If the vacuum can't be held, then it's likely a tube, connector, or the reservoir is where the problem lies. If a vacuum is held, then the seconday air system has a bad valve, is clogged or something else outside the seconday air system is causing the bad readings.

Last edited by thom4782; 12-08-2012 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:42 AM   #13
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I mustered-up the courage to repair my SAI system… again. Armed with all the SAI parts in my arsenal, nothing was going to stop me now. Since I was going to dig-in this deep I was replacing all the SAI components.

First had to remove the rear deck cover, I have never removed this before.



With the deck lid out of the way it made it easier to access most areas topside of the motor.




Removed the throttle body, cross-over tubes, the oil fill tube, and the alternator, ripped-out the SAI cut-off valve and changeover valve and discovered this:




It was a broken vacuum line! #^%$^ %*^% @$#)!! The Teklan tube got brittle and broke between the changeover valve and the vacuum reservoir.


Here is a picture showing the location of the SAI components. See where I repositioned the changeover valve, this seem to be more natural position and took strain away from the feed line from the vacuum reservoir, plus now it will be easier to troubleshoot in the future.

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Last edited by Jager; 12-08-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: added alternator to the list of removal items
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:38 PM   #14
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getting the 0410 and 1411 codes, clear them, back 8 days later... looks like I have to dig in to this.

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