Off topic
 

The title says it all!

Any advice will be very appreciated.

Thanks

Greg

Send them a picture of hell frozen over

Seven year old car...it is all good will of the dealer it this point. The **************************** approach will get you nothing.

Agreed. That will be tough one. I know your thinking low miles, but that may be one of the contributing factors to the issue. I have read in several places on many makes that one of the worst thing for a car is to sit. You may have a better chance if your had an average number of miles instead of low miles.

I would show the service history, low mileage and be as tactful as possible. Maybe point out that other Boxster owners have had engines replaced in the earlier years. I counted 43 engine failures (IMS, cylinder sleeves an undiagnosed) on the Roadfly forum and that forum has no where near the traffic that this forum has....Good luck and post back your results.

If you bought it new, try sweet talking the dealer into pushing Porsche for a goodwill replacement engine, or a least a discount. If you bought used, you won't get any help from the dealer.

If All else fails park the car directly across the street from your local dealer with one of those vinyl wrap banners that says:

---------------------
IMS FAILURE: DEAD PORSCHE!!
2005 Sticker $60K
Now: $0
(place your email here)

----------------------------



Keep feeding the parking meter until you either get a cease and dessist letter.
Which would be bogus since you are free to park where you wish. Or some compromise to help you out. Hit every dealer on a Saturday.

I think if this was my scenario and was turned down by Porsche, I would do what Perfect Lap suggests.

I think life is too short to get all lathered up because a dealer won't just give you $20k in goods and services. Think about your karma and how the above mentioned ugliness would affect you after you have already had a pretty big setback.

Just as Perfectlap said below, but I'd add something to it. I'd pull a pick up truck behind it, put the car in neutral. Then push the car at a high rate of speed right through the front glass doors.

Blackmailing is the only way. Find out who is in charge of the Service department at your dealership. Follow them home. Try to get some insinuating evidence of something. Then blackmail him/her into getting you a free repair.

Yeah be sure and ruin any good will that the dealer might actually have and burn that bridge all the way to the ground. Scorched earth is always the best method of conflict resolution.

Lord have mercy.

Why is the dealer in the crosshairs? Dealer didn't design the engine or mishandle a repair. This on the company Porsche, not their dealer network, attacking them is worthless. If you were going to do anything it would have to be a viral internet campaign and Porsche would have to care which is not likely in my experience. They didn't even call or write me back after my reported engine failure. Their headquarters is in Atlanta, protest there. We have seen other people get angry with Porsche with nothing but talk to the hand as a response.

First, its unlikely that you'll get the dealer to fully replace your engine if the car is out of warranty. The best that you can probably hope for is a substantial discount.

To get that substantial discount, you're going to have to leverage/capitalize on your relationship with the dealer. You have a good relationship, right?

What I mean is, you had the dealer do almost all of the work on your car since the day that you bought it from them and you know the service advisor well enough to have him on speed dial. Still yes? If not, then forget it, you might talk the dealer into 10% off but that's about all.

However, if you have a good relationship with your dealer, speed dial your service advisor and set up a time to talk with him and explain that you're looking for some help in the matter because you bought the car there and have been a long-term loyal customer as proven by the records of having all of the service done there too. While the service advisor can't actually authorize something like this, you need to have to have him in your back pocket for the next step.

Then get the service advisor to set up a meeting with service manager and use your relationship with the service advisor combined with the records from all of your service visits to your advantage. Be nice and courteous. Let them know that you're asking for a favor and that you fully intend to continue to bring the car to the dealer for ALL of its needs because you have always relied on them. The point isn't whether the dealer is going to do the repair but what the price is going to be and you want some help on that.

If you do this correctly, then you will convince the service manager that it would be a good business decision for him to work with you as a long term customer by helping you out in this once instance where the costs are really high. My guess that you might get the dealer to split the total cost.

Good luck.

Well I wouldn't go that far. :p

Remember in the movie Gone in 60 Seconds? Back then people were smashing windows to take home a Porsche. LOL Not to give them back! Ah the early days of the m96....


On a serious note. If you do the vinyl wrap "look at this lemon I bought", call one of the local newspaper reporters or even the local news channel. So much as photo of such a spectacle would detonate all over the internet. And once its on the internet forget it it aint ever coming off. It will be a permanent fixture on every forum and message board. Obviously that could be costly for those newbie buyers weighing a new BMW/Audi vs. a new Porsche. So I would politely write them a letter saying that you intend to alert the media by such and such date. But be sure to try the goodwill approach first and document it in writing so that when you go Extreme IMS Tactics you can say "hey I gave them a chance of doing it the nice way". But I think its high time that Porsche acknowledge this issue. With more of these engines seeing 100K+ mileage the rate of failure is sure to swell.

First off, I'm sorry for your tough luck. I don't buy the 'you have too few miles and that's what lead to the failure' argument. Cars have been in production for over 100 years. Engines should not fail at 43K miles under normal use. 43K miles in 7 years is still falls under the big part of the bell curve.

Press Porsche for help to replace your engine. If Porsche does not step up, figure out if you want to replace the engine on your own or sell/part your car out.

Vote with your pocketbook and do not buy another Porsche (telling all your friends about your saga is optional).

The whole thing is too bad. I truly feel sorry for you. Best of luck.

Based on my experience, sell the car the way it is and never look back. It's time to fold a bad hand.....

Pull the IMS bearing and send it to the CEO of Porsche with a letter giving him the details of the vehicle, your situation, and ask him for his recommendation. Keep the letter polite and professional.

Thanks for all the ideas.

I have some good gear (Canon 7D) to do a nice video of this perfect shape 42k miles 987.
Then drive down to Atlanta and knock some doors directly and leave them one letter, the IMS bearing and a USB stick with the video ready to post on Youtube and forums.

If you have a good scenario of video that I should do except for the close up of destroyed IMS bearing please share ;-) I need some inspiration.

Thanks!

Greg

Being a 2005 your car may have a non removable IMS bearing. Your wallet and health will both be better off, if you sell it and walk away now.

Sorry for your loss. If you want any possibility of help at all, be nice. You have a car that needs an engine. You're not the first and they've been threatened before. What I'm most surprised about is that of the too many Porsche owner's that have experienced IMS failures that they haven't gotten together and hired an attorney for a class-action suit. The only possibility of change comes from strength in numbers. There are likely thousands of attorney's who own Porsches and don't want to be the next high-and-dry owner with a bad engine. Numbers have strength - You Tube and other threats - not so much. Fix your car and drive it for another 100,000 miles.

Aww man I could have field day with this...


Get your friends and put on a mock lottery to win a 2005 Porsche boxster. Show one of them drawing the winning ticket. He does a fist in the air, screaming, run around the bar. Show his girlfriend crying tears of joy. Show his fat best friend somersaulting down the bar counter.
Then show the whole bar run out to see the lucky winner get the keys to the car and a Porsche jacket, like the green jacket when you win the Masters. He gets in the car turns the ignition and kaboom!
The grim reaper shows up with the letters IMS on his chest. And the girlfriend lets out a horror movie scream. Lots of smoke coming from the cockpit. Grim reaper "ha ha ha your time has come! The soul of this PORSCHE engine has been claimed!" The driver shakes his head "noooo it cant be! Nooooo it only has 42k miles!! Grimm reaper laughs haha ha no porsche engine is safe! Ha ha ha....and asks for the keys. Everyone goes back in the bar calling him a loser.


I also have an idea for a Let's Make a Deal plot where you pick door #3 after passing up a suitcase full of gold bars or something ...

IMS bearing is removable:

Chewed up bearing support:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1330413022.jpg


That should be Porsche logo:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1330413158.jpg


Intact inside/outside vehicle:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1330413210.jpg


Greg

I really appreciate your help

Yep, A+ on this mate

(remember, polite and professional)

I thought you were going to play diplomat first? I understand how you feel, I lost one at less than 30K with religious oil changes and I still don't know what exactly it was that fell into disrepair. I started out like Gandhi and think my final communique celebrated my father's participation in making sure the world didn't speak German. They simply don't care, we are peons to them and if you have a late model you bought used that goes double. They make a fantastic product with no safety net under it and frankly they make no bones about it. How do they get away with it without massive lawsuits? That I don't know, think you're pissed? Go read the 911 blogs of guys who spent north of 100G for a paper weight. A lot of them are sworn enemies of Porsche and would do anything to thwart a future sale. Will they someday be the German Kodak? If they keep that level of arrogance up you can bet on it. Everyone is going to expect VW to be awesome now and that is not going to be an easy trick to pull off. Paul is giving you solid advise, get your money and run, if you can't change the engine yourself all you are going to do is pay a painful amount for the Resurrection of your own car. It's likely cheaper to sell it as a roller and get another one if like me you want a Porsche. In fact 11AM today, I get to see what I bought blind!! (gulp)

Good advice Ghost

The question you should all be asking yourself is, why NOBODY have been able to legally, and scientifically of course, prove that the IMS bearing is indeed a manufacturing issue, and not 'something' else. Only until then, Porsche is going to admit it. No proof = they are just going to continue to blame how the car is driven, or not!, change oil(type) intervals, whatever they want. Etc

I find it quite nice of them to allow a few engine swaps at no cost, and some recalls, new engine put in etc, with no legal obligations

such catastrophic simplicity.

one $500 part is all the difference between years of joy and the bitter demise that leaves you groveling for mercy.

Such a shame this happens / was allowed to happen. These are otherwise such utterly lovely, wonderful cars.

:-(

OUCH ! that looks nasty ! From the damage I'd suggest the bearings have popped out of the bearing and got both behind and in front of the inner and outer races. I assume that the engine has seized or you have some contact between piston and valves as a result ? Was there no signs of impending failure , noises , vibration etc ?

Regarding your course of action , the dealer will be the only person that can put pressure on Porsche , they will be able to quote potential loss of sales, bad publicity of the brand , etc , etc as reasons for a goodwill gesture by Stuttgart. If you can get to talk with the dealer principal and get them on your side you will have a better chance than relying on the service manager who is unlikely to have the authority or clout to get Porsche to help. Porsche will NEVER admit it is a design failure or manufacturing defect , as this opens them up to liability for all other failures , so they will simply say they are assisting you in an irregular and uncommon failure by a goodwill gesture. Even with a new engine there will be no guarantees outside the normal period of a replacement part , so the same could happen again. If you want to safeguard against the bearing failing in future , either fit a ceramic one or a higher spec item that can operate in low lubrication situations with reduced wear.

We buy them broken on a routine basis and have buyers that want the cars with our fully upgraded engines waiting in line.

Even after these stories still so many people claim that this is all made up and the bearings don't fail~

Are you talking about the 987 2005 engine or older 97-04? I think my case scenario is quite rare isn't it?

Greg

No, the 05 and later cars can (and do) fail just like the early cars.

In all my research I've seen late models Boxsters with premature engine failures...I counted 43 on another forum most were from 97-99. I really like the car but research and a good prepurchase inspection is necessary when buying used. I believe as a last resort park the car across the street with a large sign describing how you were treated. May even want rent a nearby billboard?

All the attorneys driving these cars should get together and file a lawsuit....Many bad engines...

Treated or more aptly mistreated by whom? Did the dealer break the car? Did the dealer design the car? Did the dealer drive the car? Was the dealer negligent in any way? Did the dealer do anything that was unethical? Did the dealer inflict harm in any way?

If you could look at this from an adult perspective then maybe you might understand what lawyers already know. THE DEALER IS NOT AT FAULT, they are really the owners only advocates and you idiots insist on alienating the only folks that could actually help.

I've said it before, if Porsche has fixed this issue they have nothing to lose with a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the motor of new cars and factory replacement motors. Most of us would actually pay extra for such a warranty.

I will not buy another new Porsche until they do.

I was speaking in general terms, how you were treated was a general statement....I know I would be pissed if my 2005 Boxster $$$ with just over 42K miles experienced total engine failure due to a obvious defective IMS bearing. Plenty of postings here and on every other Porsche forum regarding this defective bearing...For every post I've read about an engine replaced I've read twice as many saying Porsche did nothing. The fact is, Porsche replaced engines under warranty, no warranty means no help or very little help from the dealer or Porsche....

[QUOTE=Boxeer;280133]IMS bearing is removable:

Chewed up bearing support:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1330413022.jpg


That should be Porsche logo:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1330413158.jpg


Why is the bearing completely dry? Any seal pieces in there? Do you have a pic down the IMS shaft.
I don't think you could sue porsche directly, you would have to go after NSK for producing defective bearings causing more than 10,000$ in damages(leading to a class action). Then NSK would probably be forced into release the info implicating porsche and THIER design of the IMS bearing. I'm no lawyer, but I did play one in a 6th grade play.

It is a good idea but I don't think the bearing design/quality can be put in relationship. As a mechanical engineer I have to choose bearing sometime and it is my responsibility to choose the right one that match my application. They just screwd the design deeply and they are ignoring it. It's already a miracle that the bearing did last 42k.

The use of a bearing was just a bad choice as it is impossible to quantify the play of it and plan a replacement before failure happens. A bearing has an L10:

Bearing Life Estimation - load and life calculations - Pacamor Kubar Bearings

Greg