Why I installed a low temp thermostat.

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Idaho Red Rocket 3

Where can we get the Wahler 160 thermostat that will fit in the Boxster ? How much did you pay for it ?

Pelican. $71 with the housing.

[jaykay]

Is this the same as the LN t-stat?

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Is this the same as the LN t-stat?

Don't know. Its the same temp, 160.

[madmods]

I also went for the 160, no hesitations after reading on the subject!

Best way imo is to take readings of the true temp on a coolant hose near the engine with a precision temp gauge. Those temp guns w/ a laser beam thingny. But also, as found on various other forums, there is below's diag features on 97-00 Boxsters. If you take a real coolant temp reading in the summer you are in for a serious laugh at the engineering dept in the capital of Baden-Württemberg

Car diagnostic tricks which works on 1997- 2000 boxsters.

There is some sort of serial data stream or CAN interface that allows the AC (manufactured by Audi) unit to display engine parameters. Here is a list of what can be seen:

To switch from F to C:
Hold down the recirculating button then push both the temperature + - buttons.

To access diagnostics:
Hold down the Recirculating & Air up buttons for 5 seconds.
The + - buttons go up and down through the list of "c" codes.
The center vent button switches the left display between the "c" code and its actual value.
Press the Auto button to exit.

0c - ERL
1c - Oil Temp
2c - Inside temp. Sensor mounted in the aspirator assembly at the side of the dash.
3c - Outside temp. Sensor located inside the air inlet of the A/C unit.
4c - Outside temp. Sensor located in front grill of the radiator. The data is fed to the climatronic from the instrument cluster. When not moving, the instrument cluster OBC temp display retains it's last setting until moving. This is to prevent heat emanating from the radiator affecting the temp. sensor. The A/C unit uses the lower of the two outside air temp values in determining fresh-air temp.
5c - Outside temp. (matches with OBC outside temp display)
6c - Coolant temp.
7c - Footwell discharge temp.
8c - Sun sensor (dash top)
9c - Sun sensor.
10c - Passenger compartment fan speed.
11c - Passenger compartment fan voltage.
12c - Temperature mix Flap command 1=COLD, 100=HOT
13c - Temperature mix Flap position
14c - Central Flap command
15c - Central Flap position
16c - Footwell/Defrost Flap command
17c - Footwell/Defrost Flap position
18c - Recirculation Valve command 1=OFF, 100=RECIRC
19c - Recirculation Valve position (feedback)
20c - Vehicle speed in kph, updating only once per second. (real speed, not speed+safety margin as in the speedometer)
21c - Engine RPM in hundreds. This too only updates once per second.
22c - ?
23c - ?
24c - Sun sensor, exterior lights switch & panel lights control (term. 58 & 58d voltage) - used for A/C panel display illum.
25c - ?
26c - ?
27c - ?
28c - Fan speed?
29c - ?
30c - Engine run time in seconds (255 max.)(=0xff)
31c - Timing counter
32c - Displays test
33c - Software version? Mine states 3.4
34c - ?
35c - Outside temp. from inlet sensor (filtered?)
36c - temp?

[Steve Tinker]

When I read all of the above information, it convinces me that ALL of us are second guessing compared to Flat6 / LN Engineering (USA) and Hartech (UK) regarding the cooling (or any other) systems. These guys have put some serious time into analysing what Porsche did or did not work out at the design stage of the M96 engine.
If Jake Raby, Charles Navarro or Baz Hart recommend anything regarding the longevity of these engines, I'm convinced.
They've forgotten more than we collectively know.....

[wvboxst3r]

bump just want to follow

[jaykay]

Yes and break out the retro fitted oil coolers! Have any tackled this?

[Bala]

is this the part number? 996-106-013-59-M902.

I guess coolant thermostat and water thermostat are one and the same?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by thstone

With all of that being said, I definitely agree that heat is the enemy of an engine and better engine heat management is always a good thing!

Shouldn't we also be talking about the benefits of adding the center radiator to the non-S cars that don't have it?

good DIY write up here

Boxster Projects | Center Radiator Install

[blue2000s]

Isn't it all second guessing Porsche?

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

When I read all of the above information, it convinces me that ALL of us are second guessing compared to Flat6 / LN Engineering (USA) and Hartech (UK) regarding the cooling (or any other) systems. These guys have put some serious time into analysing what Porsche did or did not work out at the design stage of the M96 engine.
If Jake Raby, Charles Navarro or Baz Hart recommend anything regarding the longevity of these engines, I'm convinced.
They've forgotten more than we collectively know.....

[Flavor 987S]

Good discussion. I may opt for this 160 thermo when I have the cooling system flushed after this year's driving season (Oct-ish). But, aren't we forgetting that over 50% of our cooling is coming from the oil in our cars?

Yes, I understand that the oil is also cooled by by our coolant. But the oil takes a LOT of the heat away, too.

Comments?

This Wahler thermo sounds about $100 cheaper than the L&N item? Do I have this right??

[stephen wilson]

You have to remember manufacturers run their engines hot to lower emissions, not enhance reliability.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by san rensho

In addition, the stock thermostat begins to open at 86 C and is fully opened around 99 C, so the thermostat is partially opening and closing when the coolant is almost at the boiling pioint.

Both the coolant additive (anti or whatever) and the fact that the system is pressurised increase the boiling point. If you cooling system is operating correctly, it will be a lot higher than 100 degrees C. Not sure how high, probably 115 to 120 degrees at a guess.

Personally, I'm not completely sold on the notion of the low temp stat. When the engine is getting properly hot, the stat is already wide open.

I can see how the stat would make the engine run even cooler when it would already be quite cool. But when in conditions where the engine would be running over 100 degrees / running high enough to trigger the fans (108 degrees in a 2.5), I can't see how a low temp stat is going to help.

Once you are over 100 degrees, both stats are wide open. Period.

[jaykay]

What about thermostat location in the cooling circuit? A lower temp tstat. would help mitigate too cool of a location...

[thstone]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

You have to remember manufacturers run their engines hot to lower emissions, not enhance reliability.

Yes, with the caveat that everything is a tradeoff. Lower temps might mean better reliability but at the expense of increased emissions and shorter oil change intervals.

[MileHighBoxster]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

You have to remember manufacturers run their engines hot to lower emissions, not enhance reliability.

Yes. And, resellers sell things (different than factory) to make sales. With no evidence, empirical or anecdotal, that suggests that a quicker opening thermostat accomplishes anything - other than to get people who have a factory set up to purchase and install a cooler thermostat. As I've said above, I don't say cooler isn't possibly better but, in the absence of heat issues, there remains no compulsion to alter the factory set up to simply change out a thermostat.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by MileHighBoxster

With no evidence, empirical or anecdotal, that suggests that a quicker opening thermostat accomplishes anything - other than to get people who have a factory set up to purchase and install a cooler thermostat. As I've said above, I don't say cooler isn't possibly better but, in the absence of heat issues, there remains no compulsion to alter the factory set up to simply change out a thermostat.

Actually, there is substantial empirical (ranging from improved UoA’s, to even a pre and post install Dyno pull or two) to anecdotal (“improved fuel mileage”, “faster warm up in cold weather”) data available on this subject (ad nauseum), but that would require actually doing a search to understand why changing the thermostat is a positive, and in which models Porsche already uses them from the factory.

So, yes, these things actually work……………………..

[ultimate1]

I am planning on putting in the low temp thermostat in the next few weeks. Is there any difference in quality between the Wahler and the LN Engineering thermostat. The Wahler is about $100 less expensive and I could obviously use the money towards other parts that I would like to replace. Greatly appreciate any feedback.

[Steve Tinker]

When I bought my T'stat from LN a couple of years ago, it came already installed in its (new) housing - no need to remove / replace with a special tool, just bolt in.
Perhaps thats the difference in price....

[ultimate1]

I have to check with Pelican today but I think the wahler stat comes with housing for $70