Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2011, 04:24 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
Headers

Well, I have found myself with a set of headers, ones that I never dreamed I'd have...

Brought it on myself, basically. My kid, who put online-obtained headers on his Celica GT-S and loves them, kept asking me (about the Boxster), "So Dad, when you gonna slap some headers on that thing?" To which I'd reply, "When you get me some," assuming, naturally (with his economic status, typical for a 24 year old---he's not yet exactly "financially affluent") that'd never happen. Well...it happened. For my birthday, he, his gf, and his younger brother went in together and got me some (presumably) ebay headers.

Though I had reservations (CEL woes, etc), I ultimately thought What the Heck...let's "slap them on." They do seem to be pretty well made.

This is what they look like (these are both the same one---the passenger-side one is already in place):




Now I've heard horror stories about engines catching on fire if the power steering fluid line gets too close and melts down. I'd rather that didn't happen, so I looked at them, in place and also looked at the old one, in place, and it looks like the new ones will only be maybe 1/2 to 1" closer to the PS line when compared to the distance from the OEM cat. Looks like it'll be about 3 fingers from the new piping.

I got some reflective thermal protectant material:



If you can't tell, it is sewn into a tubular form, so I can: (1) cut out the stitching and wrap it around the PS tubing, and somehow hold the cut edges of the material together, or (2) disconnect the line (shown here, below), so as to be able to slide the material on without cutting it (the reflective material, that is):



To orient you, the exhaust opening (#4 cylinder) is to the left (with some towel stuffed in it) and the PS line (w/ the metallic cap at the end) is to the right; the plug-in for the primary (upstream) 02 sensor line is in the middle/right, next to the PS line.


Any recommendations as to which route makes more sense, and how to do it? Ie, for (1) What's a good way to reconnect the material, once cut? I am thinking about using some small hose clamps around the material and the hose, but have wondered if they'd get really hot, transferring the heat to the reflective material and (possibly) somehow subvert the protective nature of that material?

For (2), I have no idea how the hose attaches and how difficult it is to remove. I know (thanks to Bentley) that you want to keep the PS fluid off cooling hoses (and presumably anything rubber-ish).

BTW, either way I'm planning on zip-tying (w/ metal zips) the PS line, so it will actually be more than 3 fingers away from it. Maybe double that? If that's the case, is the reflective material even necessary?

Any suggestions welcome.

Also, I've read here about all kinds of 02 sensor-driven CEL issues with headers. I got some of those spark plug defoulers to distance the 02 sensors (the downstream ones) from the exhaust flow, but have no idea if it'll work. Will it work? I guess I can get the ECU reflashed but would prefer, if possible, not to have to bother with that.

Again, any ideas/suggestions/opinions welcome. Thanks in advance.
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2011, 05:08 PM   #2
Porsche Purist
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,038
Garage
Just tie the PS hose back and it will be fine.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S 2002 996TT PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2011, 06:24 PM   #3
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,190
Garage
It's a pain to disconnect the P/S hose so I would ziptie the heat wrap around the hose & secure it away from the headers. The O2 spacers for the post cat O2 sensors work pretty well so I would try them also
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2011, 04:36 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Johnny Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,809
Garage
You definitely want to shield the PS line. However, rather than disconnect it, I would either wrap it with the material that you have, or get some thermal flex tubing, and use some metal zip ties to secure the material in place .

Thermo-Tec : Snap Strap

p.s. You can find this stuff on eBay also .
Attached Images
 
__________________
Don't worry … I've got the microfilm.
Johnny Danger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2011, 06:25 PM   #5
Porsche Purist
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,038
Garage
Use the 02 bung on the collector for the front sensor so it can read all 3 cylinders.

When my 3.6 had B&B headers on it, the PS hose had no issue when tied back.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S 2002 996TT PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2011, 09:34 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Use the 02 bung on the collector for the front sensor so it can read all 3 cylinders.

When my 3.6 had B&B headers on it, the PS hose had no issue when tied back.
You're talking about the O2 sensor that used to plug in just before the first cat? I thought of that, then dismissed the idea, thinking that it wouldn't reach that far (they're kinda short). Admittedly, I haven't check yet. (Too busy doing stuff like trying to line up holes, hoping the gaskets don't slip in the process, while supporting the weight of the headers, lying on my back, in less-than-perfect lighting, while trying so hard not to cross-thread the bolts into the block )

My other concern (again, not having checked it out) is that, even if they will reach, I have a feeling they won't do so without the O2 wire/insulator coming into contact with one or more of the primaries....they're kind of everywhere!

I'll check it out in the a.m. But...if it will reach, what do I do with the downstream O2 sensors?
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 09:37 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
Yeah, at least with this particular O2 sensor, there's no way it would reach to the second bung so as to be able to read 3 (instead of just one) cylinders...
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 03:34 PM   #8
Porsche Purist
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,038
Garage
I cut the cables on mine and soldered in extensions.

In regards to the PS hose, plastic tie wraps were used on my 3.6 with no issues, they are still there 30,000 miles later.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S 2002 996TT PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 05:03 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
Yeah, I got a soldering iron that's probably feeling neglected about now...I could do that. There's no problem with increased resistance (resulting in a CEL) with the additional wire? Seems like I've read something about that before...

The other question remains, however: What did you do with the other O2 sensor?
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 05:16 PM   #10
Porsche Purist
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,038
Garage
On the B&B system, headers with no CATs, but with B&B pipes with CATs near the B&B muffler, the stock 1998 wiring worked.

However when I installed the stock Cayman S complete system I had to add around 18" of wiring to each side to make the secondary sensors' wiring reach the stock header CATs rear bungs. Been that way for about 2 years with no issues.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S 2002 996TT PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 04:56 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
A followup question:

While I like these headers just fine, I've have noticed something mildly bothersome that didn't exist prior to their installation. At right about 2100 RPM I get this humming vibration that you can actually feel as well as hear. It goes away above and below that RPM. It feels like it's vibrating through the frame of the car---if I have my leg leaning against the console to the right of the accelerator petal, it actually vibrates my shin bone!

Unfortunately, I can't reproduce the vibration while sitting in neutral and bringing the RPMs up to 2100. It only occurs while the engine is under load, ie car in motion. I've checked/tightened the header bolts (they were fine) and am not sure what else the explanation could be.

Has anyone else experienced this?
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 08:54 AM   #12
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,190
Garage
If you have never replaced the front engine mount replace with the 987 mount. If you have replaced the mount repost & we will try again. Please tell us how your O2 connections went, any CEL?, P codes, header brand? Sorry to ask for more info than I gave but you write so well & didn't want to miss this chance.
BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 05:31 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
Doug,
Concerning your vibration, there was a slight vibration hum on mine when I fitted my headers.
Like you, tightening the header bolts didn't make any difference.
So I loosend the triangular 3 bolt connections to the mid pipes and as I unbolted the 3 bolts I found that there was a large gap appearing between the headers and mid pipes. So I also loosend the mid pipe connections to the muffler - pulling the "slip on" fit out towards the headers and closing the gap. My vibration seems to have been caused by too much tension placed on the headers - maybe they were slightly shorter than the originals.
Slackening off everything & readjusting the pipework has worked for me - hope it helps you too.
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 07:31 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by BYprodriver View Post
If you have never replaced the front engine mount replace with the 987 mount. If you have replaced the mount repost & we will try again. Please tell us how your O2 connections went, any CEL?, P codes, header brand? Sorry to ask for more info than I gave but you write so well & didn't want to miss this chance.
On the sensors I basically cheated, just used the O2 sensor defoulers. At first I used some short straight ones---wasn't enough, still got the CEL. The codes were:
P0133, P1275: Aging of Oxygen Sensor Ahead of Catalytic Converter (Cylinders 1 - 3) - Below lower limit

P0153, P1276: Aging of Oxygen Sensor Ahead of Catalytic Converter (Cylinders 4 - 6) - Below Lower Limit
Not sure why the codes are regarding the O2 sensors ahead of the cats. I would think that by eliminating the first set of cats, codes would be for the sensors after the cats. (I'm also unsure why there would be, for each cylinder bank, TWO codes that indicate the same condition, ie P0133=P1275, and P0153=P1276.) Anyway, I ordered this:

...and the extra length + the angle seem to have done the trick. It's been at least 100 miles and no CEL so far.

BTW, I did the front motor mount (a Pedro-refurbished one) about 3k miles ago.

The headers were some Turbowerx knockoffs from ebay. As I said earlier, they do seem to be well made, in spite of their affordability.
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 07:33 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker View Post
Doug,
Concerning your vibration, there was a slight vibration hum on mine when I fitted my headers.
Like you, tightening the header bolts didn't make any difference.
So I loosend the triangular 3 bolt connections to the mid pipes and as I unbolted the 3 bolts I found that there was a large gap appearing between the headers and mid pipes. So I also loosend the mid pipe connections to the muffler - pulling the "slip on" fit out towards the headers and closing the gap. My vibration seems to have been caused by too much tension placed on the headers - maybe they were slightly shorter than the originals.
Slackening off everything & readjusting the pipework has worked for me - hope it helps you too.
This sounds really intriguing to me...call it a gut feeling, but I suspect this may just be what's going on in my case as well. What you describe sure sounds like it would create the kind of sound I'm hearing. I'll check into it and report back...eventually!
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2012, 06:46 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,696
"P0153, P1276: Aging of Oxygen Sensor Ahead of Catalytic Converter (Cylinders 4 - 6) - Below Lower Limit"

my old friend... even a new 02 sensor didn't solve it. Must be a wiring harness issue which I have put off longer than I care to admit.
Driving over a harsh stretch of road seems to always trigger that CEL.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #17
Homeboy981
 
Homeboy981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 663
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
On the sensors I basically cheated, just used the O2 sensor defoulers. At first I used some short straight ones---wasn't enough, still got the CEL. The codes were:
P0133, P1275: Aging of Oxygen Sensor Ahead of Catalytic Converter (Cylinders 1 - 3) - Below lower limit

P0153, P1276: Aging of Oxygen Sensor Ahead of Catalytic Converter (Cylinders 4 - 6) - Below Lower Limit
Not sure why the codes are regarding the O2 sensors ahead of the cats. I would think that by eliminating the first set of cats, codes would be for the sensors after the cats. (I'm also unsure why there would be, for each cylinder bank, TWO codes that indicate the same condition, ie P0133=P1275, and P0153=P1276.) Anyway, I ordered this:

...and the extra length + the angle seem to have done the trick. It's been at least 100 miles and no CEL so far.

BTW, I did the front motor mount (a Pedro-refurbished one) about 3k miles ago.

The headers were some Turbowerx knockoffs from ebay. As I said earlier, they do seem to be well made, in spite of their affordability.
Hey @Frodo,

Sorry to reincarnate an old thread….but how is your HEADER SOLUTION working? Are you still throwing CEL codes? Did you flash the ECU or solve it mechanically? Where id you get the "L-shaped" sensor extenders and do you have a part#?

Inquiring minds want to know…especially since my headers are due in tomorrow!

Thanks!
__________________
2002 Porsche Boxtser S - Silver & Chrome - Died from IMS failure AFTER IMS was replaced!
Homeboy981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page