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Old 08-11-2011, 08:45 PM   #1
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What does a Jake Raby engine include?

I am posting this question for any one who can answer and any one who has ever wondered what comes with the $16k+ price take on a Jake Raby engine (other than piece of mind and a damn near bulletproof engine) and not including having your own engine bored out? I am talking about a complete replacement engine such as the ones shown on the flat 6 innovations website. Now I know I could probably call/email and ask them but I am curious about what people have done as far as ordering from flat 6 and if it was worth it.

I subscribe to Excellence magazine and in there it describes a complete "turn key" engine replacement... Now I don't know if that comes with ecu remapping, new transmission (if needed), etc... I am assuming that that doesn't include labor but all I have are assumptions. What I would like are some facts from someone who knows. For me and anyone else who has ever wondered what comes with the price tag of an upgraded engine.

*This thread is not a shot at Jake Raby or flat 6 innovations in any way, shape, or form. I have a lot of respect for the man and what they do at flat 6 innovations and is intended for educational purposes only. If there is a thread about this exact topic somewhere on this forum I apologize*

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Old 08-11-2011, 09:13 PM   #2
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They can build it however you want, from mild to wild. You may want to describe the exact engine specs you're looking for in order to get a better idea on price. They way your question is phrased I think the answer could range from $15K to $25K.
Are you looking for the exact same performance as stock, but with greater reliability? What exactly would you provide them to work with?
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:51 PM   #3
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For me personally I was thinking of a 3.6l that they have posted on the site. To replace my 2.7l (MY2001) I currently have. I am looking for something that has reliability and gets at least 300 bhp that is going to require the least amount of additional mods once I have made the purchase. Addition mods as in brakes/suspension, etc.... I would like to keep as much of the things I currently have while putting in 3.6l that can put out at least 300 hp to the rear wheels. Can someone tell me what $16k is going to cover in that sort of set up?
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:10 AM   #4
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I tend to agree with Pat, in this instance...but there are also other considerations in a major move, such as the one you are contemplating. You may also be overly sensitive because of your past experience(s) with this hear.

For the big $$$,you can basically get everything that you need (or want) from a high performance upgrade. Remember, however that these higher-than-factory-designed/built and thoroughly tested engines will also necessarily bring you a greater degree of risk.

So, you have to ask yourself what you are looking for and balance that with "can I handle a total engine failure (in one of the many listed ones by Flat 6 Innovations)" and this would have to be balanced with the fact that these M96 engines are now purportedly bullett proof, once Flat 6 has had a chance to work its "magic"... maybe even buy a top of the line warranty to add to what already may come with the total package... However, those are VERY hard to find and sometimes not even worth the paper they are printed on...especially when you are facing a "big ticket item". Ask me how I know Not! LOL!!!

In your case, I would definitely take the "whole enchilada" approach, from soup to nuts... In other words, get ALL of the work done there, have the Box shipped on one of the frequent transporters that bring cars down to buy all of the parts from or through them, and don't skimp on anything AND get a direct quote in writing so that you know what to prepare for and what unsurance you should get...(sic...)

I'm sure once you are driving a beast like that, all of these considerations will fade into the sunset of the sweet music it must make....a classic symphony in Flat 6, amidst all of the cacophony of the pretenders, so I wouldn't pay any mind to all of the noise out there about the ticking time bomb reputation that these engine have earned, whether dlunreliability of these M96 engines (as in "IMS")

YMMV, so caveat venditor and caveat emptor need not apply.

Please keep us posted with your details once you have made some headway and good luck!

Best, and
Regards, Maurice.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by coolbreeze551
For me personally I was thinking of a 3.6l that they have posted on the site. To replace my 2.7l (MY2001) I currently have. I am looking for something that has reliability and gets at least 300 bhp that is going to require the least amount of additional mods once I have made the purchase. Addition mods as in brakes/suspension, etc.... I would like to keep as much of the things I currently have while putting in 3.6l that can put out at least 300 hp to the rear wheels. Can someone tell me what $16k is going to cover in that sort of set up?

This seems like a very silly approach to me. You want to spend a bunch of money to make the car go fast (straight ahead), but want to skimp and save on the items that make the car stop (brakes) and help lay the power down and give a great driving experience and change directions (suspension).

You may want to rethink your process. Then again, if your just looking for some bragging rights and HP's.....proceed.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:17 AM   #6
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Jake’s engines are nearly a work of art. Every one he does gets every known upgraded part; from the IMS, to the oil pump drive assembly, to screw in plugs to replace the factory pressed in ones the sometimes pop loose, new design cam followers, billet chain paddles, new tensioners, rodes, pistons, etc., etc. Doesn’t matter if you are getting a slightly warmed over 2.7L or one of his “ground pounders”, they all get the very best of everything currently known, which is why there is always a long back order for them (currently into the spring of next year).........
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:23 AM   #7
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Instead of asking here and getting a bunch of opinions on the merits of your questions, you can just call them and get an answer in 2 minutes.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:02 AM   #8
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I've shared this page of Jake's site before, but I'll post it again here as I feel it's relevant.

http://www.flat6innovations.com/engines/performance-parts-a-services/5-performance-engine-modifications

Have a look through there and see some of the other options you may have overlooked.

You have a 2.7 that's putting out somewhere around 220hp crank (on paper), right? Here, aside from doing intake, headers, exhaust, and tune to start, Jake can take your block (if it is worthy ), remove the lokasil cylinder liners and have nickasil ones installed (Stage 2 on the web page). The advantage to this is that you can actually bump your 2.7 up to a 2.9 if you want with the installation of the nickies, and the job comes with new pistons, rings, and pins, and you can get stronger connecting rods for a small bit more. He can also do light machining on the heads to improve their performance with the new displacement. Even if you left it at a 2.7 it would bring a slight performance increase just having the nickies in there. I'm sure that if you haven't done the IMS retrofit or upgrade yet that it can be done during this process, as well.

And this isn't even getting into the next stage of turbocharging, if you so choose. If they can pull 300hp from a 2.5 with just what's on that page, at what appears to be maaaybe approaching the same amount as the cheapest price speculated in an earlier post, I'd say consider some of these options. I have to imagine if you're starting out near 220 stock that you'd have to be approaching a few tens of hp shy of 300 crank with a tuned 2.9 with modified intake, headers, exhaust, and tuning by Jake (normally aspirated still). I know that's not the 300 wheel you're looking for, but a good deal of that (and a nice heaping full of torque) will be hitting the ground better than before, and you'll still have a more reliable engine the way it should have been built.

Now, I've seen no hard numbers for it, it's just my speculations. But it's a question you can ask Jake, and I doubt he's going to have a problem with you asking him questions about something you're considering having done through his shop. I would imagine he expects more questions than he gets. Anyways, I just wanted to put that option out there in case you hadn't come across it yourself when looking around his site, because to me it means no need for a whole new engine, because you'd pretty much be getting one out of your original block when Jake's done with it, and you'll still be getting a serious bump in performance without needing to really get rid of your original engine.

As far as the other bits go, if you're looking to add nearly 100hp to the equation, you're going to need to stop better, as you're undoubtedly going to put that power to the test. If it were me, I'd want to be able to stop just as well as I go. You really might be fine just getting better pads, you don't necessarily have to go and get big cross drilled brakes, but that's not really the discussion we're having so I won't go down that path here.

Hope the link above is helpful in some way, and do try to get in touch with Jake, I'm sure he'll be quite willing to answer your questions.

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Old 08-12-2011, 07:17 AM   #9
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Which Raby engine

As there are variations of the Raby engine rebuild...

At the lowest level there is a "CPO" engine which has the IMS and a few other upper end reliability issues addressed but is still subject to many of the failure points in the M96. Priced lower than a Porsche sourced replacement engine but without the Porsche 2-year warranty.

Then there is a stock size engine with every failure point they know of addressed with a "better" part. This is the completely rebuilt engine with improved cylinder sleeves, rods, wrist pins, etc etc. They are slightly more powerful than stock. Priced at more than a Porsche sourced replacement engine.

And then there are upsized engines with outsized power and torque which are pretty much made to order after consultation with the buyer about what he wants to achieve. These are definitely much more costly than a Porsche-sourced engine.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavor 987S
This seems like a very silly approach to me. You want to spend a bunch of money to make the car go fast (straight ahead), but want to skimp and save on the items that make the car stop (brakes) and help lay the power down and give a great driving experience and change directions (suspension).

You may want to rethink your process. Then again, if your just looking for some bragging rights and HP's.....proceed.
For most cars out there I absolutely agree with this mentality. That said, I think the Boxster stops and handles SO well right from the factory that bumping the HP by 50-100 would only put the power in the same league as the handling and braking.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pat
For most cars out there I absolutely agree with this mentality. That said, I think the Boxster stops and handles SO well right from the factory that bumping the HP by 50-100 would only put the power in the same league as the handling and braking.
+1!

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Old 08-12-2011, 08:07 PM   #12
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Guys,
I am sorry that I haven't been around here much.. The IMS Guardian development has taken a lot out of me lately.. Luckily that development is coming to a close and production is underway!

At any rate my program has so many facets that the only people who understand it are the people who have created it, or those who have actually purchased my reconstructed engine with all the tricks.

I'll visit this thread on Monday and try to help you understand what we do, what a basic engine consists of and how far we can go and at which basic budget levels.

In the mean time, have a great weekend!
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Guys,
I am sorry that I haven't been around here much.. The IMS Guardian development has taken a lot out of me lately.. Luckily that development is coming to a close and production is underway!

At any rate my program has so many facets that the only people who understand it are the people who have created it, or those who have actually purchased my reconstructed engine with all the tricks.

I'll visit this thread on Monday and try to help you understand what we do, what a basic engine consists of and how far we can go and at which basic budget levels.

In the mean time, have a great weekend!

That would be wonderful Jake thank you for taking the little time you have to respond. Enjoy your weekend.
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:01 AM   #14
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Breeze, what do you intend to do with your Boxster? If your only looking for "reliability" why do you need +300HP and an engine swap? If you intend to do stuff like autocross and DE, you also need to invest and budget (and keep the Boxster's balance) in for safety items like better braking and suspension. Do you intend to just do fun & spirited country road cruises on the weekends? You'd still need more than just extra HP's, IMO.

Is your clutch up for the task? Cooling system? What about that exhaust note?

Lastly, how much have you, or do you plan to, invest in yourself, with regards to 'driver skill development'? Are you part of the PCA? Do you work with any of the Club's driving instructors? Keep this in mind before you start to plung $$$$ into the Boxster. Invest in yourself too.....skill development......and safety.

I am just trying to offer a different presepctive, and challenge your thought process.
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:14 AM   #15
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i would only consider a built motor if i had money to throw away. you are much better off getting a newer car . i thought about these motors myself but for what they cost you can buy another boxster and have 2 of them. i see really nice boxster S cars going for 15k to 20k all day long .
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
your clutch up for the task? Cooling system? What about that exhaust note?
All engines reconstruced by my company have the proper clutch assembly for their power rating included in the engine package. Without supplying the clutch assembly we cannot dynamically balance the engine to our tolerances.

Cooling system enhancements are standard and so is free extraction and reinstallation of the engine along with chassis dyno evaluations.

Exhaust note is something I could not be less concerned with, sound doesn't make the engine live longer or make more power, as we have proven time and time again. We apply the proper exhaust for the engine package that is being applied.

We do not carry out engine conversions; we utilize the customer's existing engine, apply our bige bore techniques with all reliability enhancements and that makes for seamless integration back into the car.

I'll reply with more detail Monday, just wanted to throw these few bits out there this morning..
BTW- If the OP is looking for a Boxster S, I have a nice one to sell :-)
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:39 AM   #17
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Breeze, which do you want to be?:
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:50 AM   #18
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here's what a quick tour through wiki, etc., tells me ...

car lbs hp hp/lbs
Boxster S (early) 2822 250 8.9

Carrera (US) 3000 207 6.9
993 (97/98) 3197 285 8.9
Cayman S (Gen 1) 2954 300 10.2
996 S 2920 320 10.9
997 S 3131 360 11.5

we already have the air-cooled cars beat.

Boxster to Cayman: gain 40 hp or lose 375 lbs.
Boxster to 996: gain 60 hp or lose 550 lbs.
Boxster to 997: gain 75 hp or lose 650 lbs.

so, it is possible to outclass a newer porsche with some work. i can get cayman numbers with bolt-ons and a diet. 997 S numbers are possible with an engine swap for about $10k less than getting a 997 S ($15k base car, $20k engine swap = $35k vs $45k for an early 997 S). but that gets you from a 10 year old car into a five year old car.

for me, it becomes all about aesthetics; i don't like the interior on the 9x7 series, and i like the look of the 986 side vents and sheet metal much better than the cayman. so, if an engine swap will get me a car that will give them a run for their money during my occasional trip to the track for $10k less then i'll do it.

but first i have to track down that pesky oil leak at my cam covers. i'm hoping that the spark plug tube change fixed it but, if not, then the covers are coming off and i might just be shipping my cams to jake for some magic ...


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