2001 Boxster bleeding to death...

[aaroncaserta]

Hey everyone, if this post is in the incorrect forum, I apologize. I will repost if necessary.

I know this is a lengthy post so I'll give an early bulleted summary:
-2001 Boxster leaking oil
-Paid over $1,000 to have cam covers repaired at dealership (didn't fix it)
-Now dealership claims it's the RMS (another $1,000)
-Questions at end of post

Here is my situation:
About a month ago, my 986 boxster began a slow drip of oil onto the exhaust and I was signaled by a distinct burning smell after I parked her. After she'd sit overnight there would be a tiny puddle (maybe 1/8 cup) of oil on the floor. I immediately began checking around for someone who could diagnose the problem but within a short few days the leak drastically increased. In fact, the last night I drove it was when I pulled into my garage and it leaked about 4 or 5 cups of oil. You could even see a visible trail of oil behind the vehicle. I checked the oil again and it still wasn't low, but I dared not drive it anymore.

I had it flatbedded to a local shop to diagnose and they had no idea what they were talking about... they said it was transaxle fluid and they couldn't work on it. I then had it flatbedded to another local shop and they said they didn't even have the tools to diagnose it.

Well, to make a long story short, I broke down and had it bedded to the dealership over an hour away (Bert Wolfe in Charleston, WV.) After taking about a week, they finally called me and told me the leak was due to the Cam Covers. I didn't even know what these were until I researched it and found out they are Valve Covers. They quoted me $1,068 for the repair ($368 in repairs and the rest in labor at $100/hour). I asked if this would fix the problem and the guy said, "I'm sure this will."

Well, after a few more weeks over Christmas and New Year's, they call me and tell it is ready for pickup. So, I have someone drive me all the way up there and I lay down my credit card for the repairs. I drive her about 2/3rds of the way home and decide to pull over just to check everything out. Well, it was leaking like crazy-just as bad as before, if not worse! I shut off the engine and immediately check the oil level. To my surprise, it was fine! I knew these held a lot of oil, but I didn't expect it to hold up this well with such a nasty leak.

So, the next day I call the dealership and they tell me to send it back. If it was something they did wrong then they would absorb the repair costs. Well, the next day I have it flatbedded all the way back to Charleston (the dealership doesn't have towing service and I have now paid almost $400 to have it towed everywhere). This morning they call me and say the problem is at the back of the crankshaft or something. I asked them if it was another name for the Rear Main Seal and they said yes.

They are quoting me about another $1,000 for parts and labor. I guess I have no choice so I told them to do it. I am not a rich guy by any means... :ah: I work full time and go to school full time and I'm going to have to sell the car after it is fixed.

So here are my questions:

1) Is the dealership taking advantage of me? Should they not be at least partially liable for the second phase of repairs?

2) Since they are going to have to drop the engine out to fix this, should I have them replace anything else or check anything else while they are up in there? (IMS, etc.?)

3) Does anyone want to buy a 2001 dark red Boxster with 66,000 miles on it after it is properly repaired? haha

I sincerely appreciate any advice or guidance on this... I know you guys are a wealth of knowledge and expertise.

Thank you,
Aaron

[clickman]

IMHO they should in fact be standing up to take care of the cost of the 2nd repair if they misdiagnosed it initially. Especially something like a big oil leak like you describe, which they should at least be able to tell the area it's coming from.

But how much confidence do you now have in these guys to fix it right after they screwed up the first time?

It doesn't make sense to me that if it's the RMS it'll be dripping onto your exhaust as you describe.

BTW, you don't have to drop the engine to do the RMS, just the tranny. And, yes, most forum members would likely say do the clutch and IMS at the same time.

As much as it would pain you, I think if the dealership didn't stand up, I'd look elsewhere.

Personally, I love the colour of your car. (I've already got a Boxster, thanks.)

[yelojkt]

With a bad enough leak that oil could get anywhere under and around on the engine. Most certainly at highway speeds. I feel that the dealer is telling you to just bend over and take it. You took it to a Porsche Dealership where they have cerrtified Porsche Techs. You should expect to get what you paid for. You did not. You asked if it would stop the oil leak they said it would. It did not. I would say pay for parts but labor is now on them. You just paid them $700 (labor) to fix something that was not broke.

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by aaroncaserta

If it was something they did wrong then they would absorb the repair costs. Well, the next day I have it flatbedded all the way back to Charleston (the dealership doesn't have towing service and I have now paid almost $400 to have it towed everywhere). This morning they call me and say the problem is at the back of the crankshaft or something. I asked them if it was another name for the Rear Main Seal and they said yes.

It was something they did wrong. They misdiagnosed the problem. By their own word they should absorb the repair cost.

[lifeisgood]

Any good lawyers on this forum like to have an input.

[seningen]

Good will point #1:
If I were them -- I would waive the previous repair costs -- as that
did not resolve the problem.

I would then look to fix it correctly -- and only charge for what fixes the problem.

Good Will point #2:
I'd throw you a bone for having to deal with the issue more than once.

I think it is fair to pay for the proper fix -- but you shouldn't pay for any
fix that was incorrectly diagnosed.

Mike

[Beelzy]

First, call your CC company and report the transaction as a fraud, to effect a refund.
That Dealership had no excuse for that incorrect diagnosis and costly and unneeded repair. As a matter of fact, how do you know the cam cover job was actually done?

Then find another place to work on your car.

[jcb986]

Call Porsche US Corporate office and complain, but let them know too, you are going to Porsche about there inability for them to have done the job right the first time. ******************** and ******************** LOUD.

[aaroncaserta]

I took it to a local shop because I didn't want to have to pay another $200 to tow it an hour away to the dealership. The shop called me today and said that after much testing they have determined that it is going to be one of two things. 1) Crank sensor - $276.29 or 2) the PCM. They are confident that the crank sensor should fix the problem but I wanted to seek advice from you all. They tested the fuel pump and it is good.

Is this a daunting task to install a crank sensor? They quoted labor at $357.50. Thanks for any information.

[aaroncaserta]

Devastating update time:

Last week I got a call from Bert Wolfe telling me there was a leak on the transmission and the seal had to be replaced (RMS). I tell them to go for it... Well, today they call me back and tell me that there were metal shavings in the transmission fluid and they recommend to have the tranny replaced. I cringed as he proceeded to tell me that a new replacement transmission was going to be $8000 and a used transmission is going to cost $3000.

(I am wondering if the leak was the transmission all along and they misdiagnosed it.) I wouldn't know how to prove it anyway.

I am checking around locally to see if any shops are able to install a tiptronic transmission in this Boxster, but I highly doubt anyone where I live can do this type of surgery.

The dealership said they would work with me on the labor, but at this point I'm not sure what my options are. Does anyone know of a place that I could find a 2001 Boxster tiptronic transmission?

Thanks for the help,

Aaron

[laphan]

Originally Posted by aaroncaserta

Devastating update time:

Last week I got a call from Bert Wolfe telling me there was a leak on the transmission and the seal had to be replaced (RMS). I tell them to go for it... Well, today they call me back and tell me that there were metal shavings in the transmission fluid and they recommend to have the tranny replaced. I cringed as he proceeded to tell me that a new replacement transmission was going to be $8000 and a used transmission is going to cost $3000.

(I am wondering if the leak was the transmission all along and they misdiagnosed it.) I wouldn't know how to prove it anyway.

I am checking around locally to see if any shops are able to install a tiptronic transmission in this Boxster, but I highly doubt anyone where I live can do this type of surgery.

The dealership said they would work with me on the labor, but at this point I'm not sure what my options are. Does anyone know of a place that I could find a 2001 Boxster tiptronic transmission?

Thanks for the help,

Aaron

I thought metal shavings are normal for automatic transmission as long as you don't have too much or metal chunk.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/5334659553/in/photostream/

My other cars are toyota and mercury. both has magnet attached to the transmission pan to attract all the metal shavings. I drop the pan every 50K miles and always find metal shavings build up on the magnet. Never have any problems with those transmission even with shavings...

Is you transmission shifts fine (does it slip??) ? If it works fine, I think the dealer is just try to make money selling you a new transmission. Also, you can check the leaky fluid color. If it is red, most likely it is the transmission. I hate dealer when they just want to make money and treat customer like they know nothing about car.

You can find used transmission from ebay....

[BerneseMtnDog]

I would tend to think that if the tranny was shifting fine before you brought it in for the leaks it's still fine. Something smells funny with this dealer.

Steve
2000 2.7L

[J Tinsby]

Hi Aaron,

Sorry to hear of all your troubles with the stealership. This is the sort of thing that made me get out of the automobile service industry.

If it were me I'd be looking for an attorney to at least speak to, many will give pro bono advice on a situation, so you know where you stand legally. it will be tough to prove negligence I think, I don't know that overcharging you and misdiagnosing would qualify.

What scares me is the more I read from you it seems it's getting worse they more they touch the car.

I'd be finding out if the Better Business Bureau or Consumer Protection Office has complaints about them and what they were. It may also be beneficial to call the State Attorney Generals Office and explain as politely as you can the situation. You can dispute the charge if you paid using a credit card. Make sure you write down the name of everyone you speak to and the date and time, this may be important later on and will establish a time line of events.

Armed with what you have done, and all your notes ask to speak to the owner of the dealership and let them know you will pursue the matter with all the aforementioned entities. Offer to the dealership that you aren't above calling the local newspaper or investigative people at the local TV station to apprise them of your plight.

Even when it's all said and done and you get the car fixed I'd NEVER darken the door of that place again. I drive 65 miles to get my car serviced in Delaware, even though there is a dealer 14 miles from me. ( I used to work there and know how they are, that's why!!)

I wish you the best!

J T

[Jake Raby]

Hmmn, they sound confused. I'd seriously recommend a second opinion.

Misdiagnosis? They can't tell the difference in transmission fluid or engine oil? I guess they aren't as hardcore as we are, hell I taste to tell the difference if I can't smell the difference!
Their probably isn't a publication that directs such action in their library~

[thstone]

I don't think that I'd replace a transmission when the only symptom was a few metal shavings in the fluid ... not a good sign, but not the immediate end of life for the transmission either.

[aaroncaserta]

Hey everyone, just wanted to bring an update to everything so far.

Good news: Basically, they admitted that the transmission was their fault and they replaced it with a used unit with about 20k on it. I am happy about this because the old one had 66k on it. I paid them $2,300 for a list of other repairs such as O2 sensor, RMS, installation of the tranny, liquids, seals, etc. I was still OK with this because the car needed this stuff anyway and it was much cheaper than the originally quoted $6,000!

Bad news: I bring the vehicle home and drive about 200 miles on it on the same tank of fuel just to have it die on me and not start back up. I was pulling it into a parking spot and the engine shuts off and all the lights come on the dashboard. I try to restart to no avail. It cranks light it is trying to start but the engine doens't turn over. I let it sit for a while and tried it again, nothing. I try it again the next day and nothing. Then today, I go try it one last time and it fires up! I leave it running for 5 minutes, rev it a little and it does just fine so without shutting it off I put it into drive and go about 15 feet then it dies on me again. I check the fuses for the fuel pump and fuel injectors: both are good. I pull the fuel pump relay out and put it back in (this is above the fuse box) and no difference.

Any ideas? I sincerely appreciate any help...

Thanks,
Aaron

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by aaroncaserta

Hey everyone, just wanted to bring an update to everything so far.

Good news: Basically, they admitted that the transmission was their fault and they replaced it with a used unit with about 20k on it. I am happy about this because the old one had 66k on it. I paid them $2,300 for a list of other repairs such as O2 sensor, RMS, installation of the tranny, liquids, seals, etc. I was still OK with this because the car needed this stuff anyway and it was much cheaper than the originally quoted $6,000!

Bad news: I bring the vehicle home and drive about 200 miles on it on the same tank of fuel just to have it die on me and not start back up. I was pulling it into a parking spot and the engine shuts off and all the lights come on the dashboard. I try to restart to no avail. It cranks light it is trying to start but the engine doens't turn over. I let it sit for a while and tried it again, nothing. I try it again the next day and nothing. Then today, I go try it one last time and it fires up! I leave it running for 5 minutes, rev it a little and it does just fine so without shutting it off I put it into drive and go about 15 feet then it dies on me again. I check the fuses for the fuel pump and fuel injectors: both are good. I pull the fuel pump relay out and put it back in (this is above the fuse box) and no difference.

Any ideas? I sincerely appreciate any help...

Thanks,
Aaron

I would stop trying to start it & call the dealership/shop that "fixed it" & tell them what happened (except the part about you trying to restart it) & recommend they send a flatbed tow truck to pickup your car & really fix it this time, then find yourself a attorney that specializes in automotive repair to help them decide the best way to kiss your arse & your Box's arse!

[aaroncaserta]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

I would stop trying to start it & call the dealership/shop that "fixed it" & tell them what happened (except the part about you trying to restart it) & recommend they send a flatbed tow truck to pickup your car & really fix it this time, then find yourself a attorney that specializes in automotive repair to help them decide the best way to kiss your arse & your Box's arse!

Well, I did call them and tell them what is going on. They are bringing me a replacement fuel pump relay switch to try on Monday. I'm not trying to start it any more.. I was just hoping I could get it running to drive it back to the dealership. I am just trying to figure out if it is something they didn't fix right or not. I am no expert but I think it may be a fuel pump issue. They didn't do anything with that... only the transmission and a couple other things. Thanks for the input.

[johnsimion]

Originally Posted by aaroncaserta

Basically, they admitted that the transmission was their fault and they replaced it with a used unit with about 20k on it. I am happy about this because the old one had 66k on it.

I really don't understand what the deal was with the transmission. They replaced the RMS which indicates your leak was an engine oil leak, not transmission. Do you have to drain the tranny fluid in order to remove the tranny from the car to replace the RMS? How else would they discover metal shavings in the transmission fluid? And assuming there really were metal shavings in the transmission fluid, why would that be "their fault"? If it really was a bad transmission, it wasn't their fault. If it wasn't a bad transmission, why replace it at all? This whole thing is crazy.

Best of luck resolving all this. Your car is beautiful.

[jdiba]

Sorry you're going thru all this crap Aaron.