Anyone has access to BlackBook pricing? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

SeaNile31 · 12-31-2010, 05:47 AM

I'm looking at an 05 S and the pricing from Edmunds, KBB, etc vary greatly. I'm pretty sure the dealers use BlackBook for valuing their cars. I might be making more out of this than need be. 05 S, 20K miles started at $28,950 then $28,450 and now $27,900.

Brucelee · 12-31-2010, 03:51 PM

Actually, most dealers use the auction value to place a price on a trade-in. These auction values also have data on retail prices etc.

In all my time in the trade, I have never seen a "black book."

Unless you have a friend in the trade, you cannot access the auction values.

Topless · 12-31-2010, 07:11 PM

This is actually a very unusual market for used cars. I don't think any book will get you closer than about +/- 10% of what any particular car will sell for.

My suggestion is always to focus far more on the car than the price. If you found a sweet car, negotiate your best deal and be prepared to walk away if the seller is completely unwilling to meet you in the middle. If it really is "the one" a difference of $2k one way or the other won't matter in the long run.

thstone · 12-31-2010, 10:01 PM

If you are looking at BUYING the car from the dealer, it will be priced at "market" value. This is based on what the dealer thinks that he can get someone to pay based on new car prices and used car prices. There isn't any "blackbook" or "greenbook" pricing and even the Kelly Blue Book will be ignored - the price is entirely based on what the dealer thinks they can get.

If you are looking at SELLING OR TRADING IN your car to the dealer, then the price they offer will be based on auction prices which may differ from Kelly Blue Book pricing.

It your example, it sounds like you're looking at buying used car from the dealer and have seen the price go down a bit. That is because the car hasn't sold and the dealer is adjusting the price to try to get it sold.

Also, the car seems to be priced somewhat under Kelly Blue Book Retail, but that is to be expected for a used luxury car in the middle of a severe economic recession.

Luxury used car prices have mostly fallen through the floor over the past 3 years and this has hit Boxsters even more so because they are expensive to maintain/repair, online forums are filled with story after story of engines blowing up because of poor design, and are they not thought to be a primary vehicle for most people. Bam, bam, bam - and the used car price goes way down.

SeaNile31 · 01-01-2011, 06:21 AM

Found this Black Book link while looking online an a 987 which an Infinity dealer has. If this pricing is correct, they say trade in value of an 05 S with 20K miles is $15K-20K. OUCH. I would be crushed if I had an 05 S, well cared for, went to trade it in and was offered $20K. It's amazing how many 05 S cars are advertised for over $30,000.

http://web1.intellipriceauto.com/etradeinbg/identify.aspx?lcdealer=6968001&Spanish=No&vLead=1&vTheme=2&vProgID=0&dealerid=6968001

WhipE350 · 01-01-2011, 07:06 AM

Yup OUCH. I've bought two Mercedes from a friend (well started off as my sales man and became friend second, you know how those relationships are, business is business. Anyway both times I bought cars from him I couldn't pass up the deal on the new Mercedes so I went the trade in route instead of the private sale.
The cars I traded were low miles and super clean, I knew my cars weren't going to auction so I wanted top dollar. He couldn't print a copy for me but he showed me the auction prices (low, middle, high). I told him no sale unless I get the best auction price. To make a long story short, I got 20k for my 2005 Acura TSX, they listed it for 23k and sold it two weeks later....on my 2007 C class they gave me 20 or 21k I think and listed it for 26.5k and sold it one month later. Now in both cases I'm not guessing they got those asking prices.
If you've found something you really really like and think the price is close to what you feel comfortable paying then get it, I'll tell you when I was looking and learning this fall about Boxsters I let two gems get through my fingers because of a 800 or $1200 spread from what I wanted to pay. The other option is to take your time, the right one will come along eventually.
It's interesting, I see lots of folks on this forum talking about buying cars...don't see any members offering theirs, guess we like our cars

SeaNile31 · 01-01-2011, 08:23 AM

What makes the buying process more challenging for me is the cars I have found are not local to me so they would be bought sight unseen. I have done that before 2x, once on an 05 S from private party and I talked to him several times and got a good feeling from him about the car. Having the PPI done and feedback from the dealer certainly helped. Second car bought sight unseen was my Ferrari from the dealer. I felt a little more comfortable talking to them about the car as they were a Ferrari dealer. This particular 05 S I am interested is a trade at a Subaru/Chevy dealer so I don't quite trust them as much. If we move forward the PPI will help as I will get another opinion on the car.

I am hardly one to sweat the small stuff on a deal like this or worry over $1000 if it is the right car. If the car was local it would a much easier deal. I would have looked at the car already and would have either bought it or passed by now.

Brucelee · 01-01-2011, 08:47 AM

The Wholesale/auction/trade-in prices are just that. The ASKING price is always much higher. What is not really known are actual selling prices. While some of these data are reported, they are quite subject to distortion.

What you pay is up to you and the seller.

jcb986 · 01-01-2011, 09:06 AM

Black book prices are what an auto will sell at auction and can very, this data is used by dealers so they want pay to much for a trade. The average auto sales lot will markup an average vehicle for about $2500 over what he paid for it. But, he will need to detail and fix anything that may need to be fixed before it could be sold, ie, tires, brakes, etc. Now what happens when you go to trade a vehicle in at a dealer, the used car department will value the car using Black Book pricing and adding condition of the car and mileage will usually means a reduced value for your trade. The manager will use this to allow a trade-in value, also he is trying to find a buyer who will pay more for the auto because they really do not want to go to the auction. It cost them...this is usually what adds the most time to negotiating a buying price. Good look...Boxsters can be bought at KKB trade in prices.

SeaNile31 · 01-01-2011, 09:45 AM

Surprisingly the one I am negotiating on is at KBB trade in value. I made a low offer ($25,000), they declined and said they have a client coming to check out the car on Monday and I better give a deposit to hold the car @$26,900. I like the car but if it sells it's no big deal, there will be others on the market and I have about 4 months of winter before driving it anyway.

litteng · 01-01-2011, 01:29 PM

black book has a stranglehold in the canadian market from what i've seen. my friend is a dealer and usually get the cast offs (a month old), the black book price is based on what they sell for at auction in toronto. the local dealer lowballed me and offered me 26k cdn for my 06 (a canadian car) and the 07 they were trying to sell ~$47k.

we also use a website VMR.com to check on values...
half the fun is the shopping enjoy the process

SeaNile31 · 01-01-2011, 01:47 PM

All good advice and sites to research. All in all, I'm finding the $26,900 to be a very decent price, especially if the tires are new as stated, it has 20K miles and if it is well cared for with good paint, etc. I will call them on Monday, see if the come down a bit more and schedule a PPI.

WhipE350 · 01-01-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaNile31

I am hardly one to sweat the small stuff on a deal like this or worry over $1000 if it is the right car. If the car was local it would a much easier deal. I would have looked at the car already and would have either bought it or passed by now.

Oh I see, ya that makes it hard. Well if it was in the Charlotte NC I would go check it out for you.

I did a quick search on the big car sites and that price you are getting beats even the Base ones I found within 50 miles of Charlotte.

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action?sf1Dir=DESC&mkId=20081&mdId=20705&crSrtFlds=stkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-yrId&rd=50&zc=28107&PMmt=1-1-0&stkTypId=28881&sf2Dir=ASC&sf1Nm=price&sf2Nm=miles&rpp=50&feedSegId=28705&yrId=20144&yrId=20199&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&pgId=2102

I even searched the Miami area and the prices aren't any better. Let us know how it works out.

Burg Boxster · 01-01-2011, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipE350

I did a quick search on the big car sites and that price you are getting beats even the Base ones I found ...

and thus the old saying... "if it's too good to be true.... "

SeaNile31 · 01-01-2011, 04:42 PM

I agree, at 20K miles and $26,900 is a pretty good deal. If this moves forward the PPI and the Porsche dealership should easily tell if this car was abused, neglected, has bodywork done, etc.

Also found a beautiful 06 S asking $34,900. A lot more than I want to spend but it's a private party well documented car. I don't expect this car to come down to 26900 but $34K is way to hi at this point.

Brucelee · 01-02-2011, 05:59 AM

PS

When I was a dealer, we used the auction values from Manheim. Again, I never saw any dealer use a "black book." Some dealers would have their Kelly books at the auction but most had their Blackberries. The books were largely useless, as values change very quickly.

Also, the auction has computers in the building so that dealers could access values there.

xamfed · 01-03-2011, 05:50 AM

I work for Manheim Auctions (world's largest Auto Auction company), some dealers do use Black book and Manheim Market Report. Most just use the MMR values. The problem with 986's and Market value is so few change hands that the values are not accurate. The best way to find out what you want to pay for a 986 -987 search autotrader and EBAY. Search the whole country and see what the MY you are looking at is listed for. You will see a broad range of prices for that car, but it will give you a better idea of what the car is worth.

Remember this, Dealers are in the business to make money. They generally try to make $2000 on each car. They also want to get the cars off thier books by 60 days in inventory. They will drop the prices as the car reaches 30 days, 45 days. By 45 days, the price may be a break even point just to get it off the books.

The best deal you can find is the one you are happy with. If you aren't happy with the price walk away and try to find something you are happy with.