IMS Upgrade - Should I have it done

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

The choice is yours.. Is the thrill of owning the car worth the investment? Know that if you don't do the upgrade that a failure can occur and if it does happen the repair will cost more than the price of the car.

At least you know this now.. Many others don't find out until after the purchase is made or when a failure occurs. Two people I am working with now have experienced failures with cars they haven't even made the first payment on yet... Talking about being disgusted! The worst is the guy with the 996 that had it fail while being transported to him from the buyer.

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service.

Though you may be gun-shy it is better to be informed than being flanked by a full on failure out of the blue. People have called us in tears before, literally.

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by postitagain

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service

My Car:

I have changed the oil once in 7 years. My car has 12k on it. It still smells like new!

I don't worry - life is to short!

Good grief you need to go drive that car. 12K an 7 years that is sad.

[Perfectlap]

Given the inventory of Porsches in general, you should look for a newer, in terms of engine design, Boxster. At this particular weight, those extra ponies really hit the sweet spot when you are exiting out of corners. It also helps in merging on highways and overtaking soccer mom vans. When I first drove a Honda S2000 on 240 HP (albeit with less torque) and came out of braking I instantly had an 'a ha" momment. Although the S2000 has its engine weight before the front shocks, the principle was similarish to a mid-engine two seater like the Boxster: At 240-260 HP(3.2 Boxster engines), this variety of roadster "comes alive".
280 - 300 (3.4 Boxster engines) give more oomph but the power starts to make more of a difference than the driver. Below 240 (2.7, 2.5 Boxster engines) its all driver.
I think 240-260 is the happy medium. Although if you offered me a Boxster Spyder I wouldn't turn you down.

There are also engine improvements in term of reliablity that come with each step forward in the design evloution. 2.5---->2.7, ----> 3.2,-----> 3.4

p.s.
My Porsche specialists did my IMS and clutch for ~$1800.
This should be the first thing you upgrade on the car in my opinion, even if your clutch is still "50%" so to speak. No point in passing up potential $10+K savings from an engine that didn't grenade just to save $300 (1/2 the cost of clutch).

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Given the inventory of Porsches in general, you should look for a newer, in terms of engine design, Boxster. At this particular weight, those extra ponies really hit the sweet spot when you are exiting out of corners. It also helps in merging on highways and overtaking soccer mom vans. When I first drove a Honda S2000 on 240 HP (albeit with less torque) and came out of braking I instantly had an 'a ha" momment. Although the S2000 has its engine weight before the front shocks, the principle was similarish to a mid-engine two seater like the Boxster: At 240-260 HP(3.2 Boxster engines), this variety of roadster "comes alive".

I was thinking this same thing after reading the 911 comment. But then I also know how appealing a pristine interior can be.

[jwade]

S2000's are fun cars to drive, but a 986S will walk all over one....and the honda is very cramped for interior space too.

[Jake Raby]

I have changed the oil once in 7 years. My car has 12k on it. It still smells like new!

Classic example of a situation where someone doesn't understand what kills engine oil.. How about fuel intrusion? coolant intrusion?

The oil in that engine should have changed at least once per year, EVEN IF THE CAR WASN'T BEING DRIVEN!

Based on what I have seen, I'd bet the engine posted above would be at higher risk of experiencing an IMS issue or some other engine issue than most any other 100K mile engine that had been driven by a teenager.

Lack of use IS ABUSE!

To the poster bragging about the 7 year old service:
Do an oil change and send me a 1 liter sample of that oil. I'll analyze it for free, I'd pay to see the acid numbers that oil has!

Extended drain intervals are one reason why these engines are seeing failures and thats not just in terms of mileage..

[jwade]

Jake, I was on your site the other day and love the comment on your 4.0 race engine....

"For those with Deep Pockets and Big Balls!!!"

Laughed my ass off...but I bet that engine is a freaking screamer!

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by jwade

Jake, I was on your site the other day and love the comment on your 4.0 race engine....

"For those with Deep Pockets and Big Balls!!!"

Laughed my ass off...but I bet that engine is a freaking screamer!

Yep... I say it like it is! Keeps the tirekickers away!

I designed the first of these 4 liter engines for my Wife's Land Speed 996... Her T shirt reads:
"If I had balls they'd be bigger than yours".. She currently holds four Land Speed Records :-)

[Jim Miller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The choice is yours.. Is the thrill of owning the car worth the investment? Know that if you don't do the upgrade that a failure can occur and if it does happen the repair will cost more than the price of the car.

At least you know this now.. Many others don't find out until after the purchase is made or when a failure occurs. Two people I am working with now have experienced failures with cars they haven't even made the first payment on yet... Talking about being disgusted! The worst is the guy with the 996 that had it fail while being transported to him from the buyer.

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service.

Though you may be gun-shy it is better to be informed than being flanked by a full on failure out of the blue. People have called us in tears before, literally.

All this discussion is disturbing but good. I will be test driving this car Sunday to potentially buy knowing that I need to add $2000 to the price. I decided, if I experience some of the fun I had driving my old 911T I will probably go for it.

I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.

I find this very interesting. I wonder what the noise level is in yelojkt at 70. What made you decide to take a reading in your 911T?

[eightsandaces]

My brother had a 991 T, very nice car, the Boxster is far more gratifying in every way. AC? no contest, chassis? no contest, engine placement and weight distribution....same

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by eightsandaces

My brother had a 991 T, very nice car, the Boxster is far more gratifying in every way. AC? no contest, chassis? no contest, engine placement and weight distribution....same

Some would disagree that the Boxster is more gratifying. Even with all the on-paper advantages.

[Jake Raby]

I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.

That is a Porsche...

Some of us still believe that Porsches don't have radiators, power brakes, heated seats, or a heater or air conditioning system that functions worth a damn.

My daily driver is a 1976 Porsche 912E, it has no radiator, No IMS bearing, no A/C and no creature comforts at all.. It is raw Porsche.

All my modern Porsches are secondary vehicles and I'd rather drive the 912E over any of them, because I appreciate raw Porsche that much.. I accumulated 160K miles on that car in 8 years and never did anything to it, just replaced the alternator in that period of time.

When doing our develomental M96 work I drive the modern cars more than I want to.. They are great cars, but to me its just not the same and it never will be.

Like I said, knowing about these issues is imperative. Beter to be informed than ignorant.

[eightsandaces]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Some would disagree that the Boxster is more gratifying. Even with all the on-paper advantages.

Some would sure, I like driving the 1971 Fiat too, not taking a thing away from the experience but I know I could hand a T driver his ass all day every day in my Boxster.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by eightsandaces

Some would sure, I like driving the 1971 Fiat too, not taking a thing away from the experience but I know I could hand a T driver his ass all day every day in my Boxster.

That's not covering the gratifying part, unless the gratification comes from handing "a T driver his ass all day every day". For me, it doesn't. If the Boxster was my only sports car, I probably would have sold it a while ago.

My message to the original poster is to drive the Boxster, and drive some older 911s, especially the 3.0 and 3.2 cars and decide what you enjoy driving more.

[Jim Miller]

I work at a chemical company where we are constanly evaluating process noise and the need for hearing protection. Noise levels above 86 db long term can be damaging.

I took someone for a ride in my car and he commented on the high noise level, rained on my parade. I then took the comany noise metter and started testing and found it was quite high. It was close to 86 at idle. I was able to reduce the level by applying Dynamat material under the rear seat and engin wall, reduced the level to 96 from over 100. One major contributer was installation of stainless steal heat exchangers, should of replace with normal steal.

For a long time I wore foam ear plugs, but eventually got rid of the car primarily because of that. Loved that car, hoping the Boxster will give me similar enjoyment.