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Old 12-05-2009, 07:32 PM   #1
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Carbon Ceramic Rotors and Pads

So was looking to invest in some carbon ceramic brake setups. does anyone know what sizes you can find these in and where to get them? seems to me it would be a good investment even on a stock brake system...



btw i have a 2001 non S
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:35 PM   #2
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Your post raises more questions than answers at this point.

What are you actually looking to do? Are you wanting pads containing ceramic material, or are you wanting to emulate the Porsche PCCB package?

I have a 2000 S which already has bigger brakes than the standard boxster, and I replaced the pads with Pagid race pads, RS-5 on the front and RS-4 Blue on the back. I also flushed the fluid at the same time. The brakes are now nothing short of amazing.

Perhaps this is an option for you? Rather than paying the $10k or so to put in the PCCB system (if this is what you were thinking??) then maybe upgrade to S calipers and rotors and get some pagid pads on the car.

Most people will tell you that this is overkill on the street (and they would be right) but if you get off on having brakes that are near impossible to fade like I do then it might be a good option. Food for thought in any case.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:39 PM   #3
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the PCCB option is too pricey much like most things porsche. However, i have heard of companies who make aftermarket rotors and pads that are carbon ceramic. Of course there are many upgrades before this which could be done:

better brake fluid, steel brake lines, etc, but since im in the market for pads and rotors if there are any aftermarket makers out there (ie stop-tech) what are they and has anyone tried them.

also another thing is longevity... not having to change rotors or pads for 100K+ miles is quite nice.

Last edited by Lobo1186; 12-05-2009 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel R
Most people will tell you that this is overkill on the street (and they would be right)

this is an interesting comment by those people.

does a car need to go faster than 80 mph on the street? (in the US) surely 150 is overkill... but yet we all own a car that can either approach or surpass this number.


but all kidding aside i believe all of us here like our little bit of overkill in our lives.


perhaps... i just hate brake dust and replacing my rotors and pads!
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo1186
i have heard of companies who make aftermarket rotors and pads that are carbon ceramic.
I'm curious, who are these companies? I haven't heard of anyone making carbon composite rotors as aftermarket brake kits. I know StopTech and Brembo do not.

You should check rennlist, planet9, and 6speedonline as there are several threads where people tracked their cars with PCCB and ended up damaging the rotors and faced a $20,000 brake job. Apparently, it's an $8k option to buy but to replace them it's $5k per rotor (and if you track your car, Porsche will not cover the rotors under warranty). Some of them are going back to iron rotors.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo1186
this is an interesting comment by those people.

does a car need to go faster than 80 mph on the street? (in the US) surely 150 is overkill... but yet we all own a car that can either approach or surpass this number.


but all kidding aside i believe all of us here like our little bit of overkill in our lives.


perhaps... i just hate brake dust and replacing my rotors and pads!
OK, perhaps we should clear up why the PCCB option is overkill for the street. There are two properties of Carbon-Creamic brakes that make them great for racing. They are much more resistant to fading and they weigh less than steel brakes. That's it. They do not reduce stopping distances. They do tend to last longer but replacement costs of pads and rotors are so much higher that the cost per mile is less for steel by a wide margin.

Now why do you not need the enhanced fade resistance of Carbon brakes for the street. Because you do not make repeated stops from 100+ every 30 seconds on the street, but that's exactly what you do on the race track. Your stock brakes are perfectly fade resistant for even the most aggressive street driving.

The weight difference does not matter either for the street. There's not a big enouhg diff to make a dent in fuel economy. The reduced unsprung weight means the chassis will respond better with carbon, but as no one drives 10/10ths on the street (and lives for very long) there is no need for the slight handling improvement. Most drivers would never notice the difference.

So, unless you are doing lots of DE events you will be much better served by going with steel brake rotors and quality pads. C-C brakes are indeed overkill for the street as their perfomance enhancements will not even be noticeable.
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:41 AM   #7
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Good info here. But you can rationalize why something isn't needed all day long but someone is still going to do it. I'd like to see if someone offers C-C brakes on the aftermarket just out of curiosity as to what a true market price for these would be. I'm sure the folks with them on their cars would love to have the option to look for replacement parts somewhere other than the factory.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:52 AM   #8
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I've never come across anything like PCCB in after-market.

Could someone please post a link, for the sake of curiosity more than anything else.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTP
I'm curious, who are these companies? I haven't heard of anyone making carbon composite rotors as aftermarket brake kits. I know StopTech and Brembo do not.
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=177624

http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?id=STIGTRCCM1&c=BR

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/02/brembo-aims-to-mass-produce-carbon-ceramic-brakes-with-new-joint/

these are NOT all for porsche these are just easily found examples of aftermarket systems... Hence why i started this thread if other people might know some things about aftermarket systems.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by renzop
Now why do you not need the enhanced fade resistance of Carbon brakes for the street. Because you do not make repeated stops from 100+ every 30 seconds on the street, but that's exactly what you do on the race track. Your stock brakes are perfectly fade resistant for even the most aggressive street driving.

The weight difference does not matter either for the street. There's not a big enouhg diff to make a dent in fuel economy. The reduced unsprung weight means the chassis will respond better with carbon, but as no one drives 10/10ths on the street (and lives for very long) there is no need for the slight handling improvement. Most drivers would never notice the difference.

So, unless you are doing lots of DE events you will be much better served by going with steel brake rotors and quality pads. C-C brakes are indeed overkill for the street as their perfomance enhancements will not even be noticeable.

i guess i wasnt clear the first time. WHO CARES if it is overkill? have you seen what we drive and the things people here do?

like i said maybe i just dont like brake dust and replaceing worn rotors... or maybe I do alot of braking or up and downhill driving through the twisties?

its weird all this hostility about how "overkill" this is... does someone here have vested interest in the failure of aftermarket CCM rotors or even PCCB?
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:45 PM   #11
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Thanks for the links showing the aftermarket carbon composite rotors. I didn't realize they were available. Still way too much money unless it's for a competition car.

I don't like brake dust either but it wipes away quickly. I don't like having a giant puddle of oil under my car even less. I would rather put that money into an engine upgrade improving reliability and durability. That's just me, but if you Have the cash and install the CC rotors I'd like to see pics and a good write up.
Would be interesting.

Last edited by JTP; 12-06-2009 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JTP
Thanks for the links showing the aftermarket carbon composite rotors. I didn't realize they were available. Still way too much money unless it's for a competition car.

I don't like brake dust either but it wipes away quickly. I don't like having a giant puddle of oil under my car even less. I would rather put that money into an engine upgrade improving reliability and durability. That's just me, but if you Have the cash and install the CC rotors I'd like to see pics and a good write up.
Would be interesting.

very true. I have decided however that if my engine goes... well then it goes. I will do some basic preventive measures from jake. otherwise im just going to enjoy it and the day it goes ill start working on picking up a new 3.8L that doesnt have RMS or IMS. but that is a few years from now.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobo1186
So was looking to invest in some carbon ceramic brake setups. does anyone know what sizes you can find these in and where to get them? seems to me it would be a good investment even on a stock brake system...



btw i have a 2001 non S
I have the same car as you. Porsche brakes are expensive enough, and good enough, if you use OEM. When some high priced (newfangled) option fails you you will feel sick about it. I advise not overdoing it, especially on that age of car.
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Old 12-21-2009, 03:56 PM   #14
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I agree with the other guys here on overkill for the street. If you want performance go buy the Spyder...money well spent.
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