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Old 02-28-2009, 01:23 PM   #1
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Advice / Opinions on a 2000 S

Hey all,

Looking at a Boxster 2000 S with 66k miles on it. It's at a big chrysler dealership and from the pictures it looks pretty awesome. I'll be driving down tomorrow to take a look at it. The only thing that *may* throw me off a little is the red interior it has. Although I see a ton of boxsters with the signature red interior I wanted to ask what people with that interior color think of it after driving around with it for awhile. I gotta find out if i can get a PPI done on it (there is a porsche dealer 2miles down the road). One last thing, how much do you think the car is worth if it was in great condition?

Really appreciate the help all! Thanks!

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Old 02-28-2009, 02:09 PM   #2
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Go to Kelly Blue Book (KBB.com) and look up the values for Private Party, Trade-in and Retail. I would think you could get it for something close to the private party price.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:31 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply. I did check KBB and although KBB is great for value setting I was wondering what people on these boards would pay. Just trying to get an idea of the value from some experts .

The red interior which I'm starting to like more is still worrying since I don't know if it's considered girly. I don't think my fragile ego can take that punishment. Anyone here with a red interior boxster?
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:26 PM   #4
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Wink Opinion on Red Interior

some people like them some don't, the question you have to ask yourself is would you be able to live with it for the rest of your ownership.. there's no point in going through all of the buying process , ie: p.p.i. test driving etc... even if everything turns out to be o.k..
with this economy as it is , and the abundance of available Boxsters in the market, i'm pretty sure you could find the right fit for you.. unless you are in a firm and limited budget for purchase.. a difference of a thousand dollars or two when it comes to the correct boxster you come to consider.. meaning right color and interior combination, condition , desirable options and no accidents.. really would be the deciding factor for me.. just my cents..
hope this helps in your search..
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:03 PM   #5
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The prices of all cars continue to drop with the economy in the shape it is. I am seeing Boxster S models in the 17,000-20,000 range for the year and mileage you are looking at. I would definately wait to find the right color combination and options you want. Don't get a red interior unless you love it.

If you are getting a model earlier than 2004, try to find one with a new top with rear glass window. A great option, which will run you about $1500 or more if you had one installed.

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Old 02-28-2009, 09:58 PM   #6
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It's hard to just throw out an accurate number because so many things come into play:

The economy continues to tank, which is good if you're in the mkt for a Boxster but really makes it hard to pin a price on them. They're generally a 3rd car / toy and those are the 1st things to go when times get tough. If someone is desparate enough, they could unload them for a really low price. Forum members are probably a bit afraid to say what particular cars are worth right now because we've lost a tremendous amt of value in the last 8 mo alone. We hate to admit that.

Condition of the car. Has it had maintenance done or did the PO only have enough $$$ to buy the Box but none to maintain it? At 66K mi, has the timing belt and water pump been changed? The clutch might be getting long in the tooth too. Was the RMS ever changed?

Tires and wheels. Tires can run anywhere from $500-$1200 depending on the brand selected. If the wheels are upgraded from the std Porsche wheel, they can add $1000 to the price.

Does this Box have a few options or is it loaded? Box's can have a myriad of options. Obviously strippers are worth less than a full boat Box.

Not sure where All Over is, but if you're in say Chicago, that Chrysler dealer would be pretty happy to see a customer interested in a 2-seater sports car in the middle of a severe winter. If you're in SoCal, not so much.

So we can fire off a number and it could be way off what this one's worth. With more info we could give you a better ballpark figure. We all want to pay the least amt we have to, but I've never felt bad about paying more for a quality car that was exactly what I wanted. Best thing is to find out more about this car and then do more research to see if the price is right.

A couple of points about the red interior. (1) As EK said, if you're not sure about it, look for one that you love. Box's aren't rare. But if you do like it, what does it matter what others think? I traded a Lapis Blue 01S in on my LE but I had to wait 2 days to consumate the deal. All of my family said I was nuts to trade my beautiful blue Boxster in for an ORANGE car. Made me think I might be making a mistake. I wondered if I'd quickly grow tired of the color. But I liked the orange and wanted to do the deal. I couldn't be happier. I love it more now than when I bought it 15 mo ago. And (2). If you think a red interior may threaten your manhood, then a Box may not be the car for you in the first place. We get a lot of comments about how it's a "girls car" - no offense to the lovely female members on the forum. Did you ever see the 2 1/2 Men episode about the Boxster? It has that connotation associated with it. Better get used to it.

Good luck with your journey.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:14 AM   #7
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I wish mine came with red interior.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #8
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Well gen speaking unless you live in Southern California or Miami there aren't a ton of Boxster on the road period. How many people that you've met over the years own a Boxster? Not many. Now toss in the Boxster Red interior and you've got an even less common car.

What drew me to the Boxster Red color was that it was obviously unique and classic, but also tha it's maybe the easiest color in the world to keep new looking and clean. Black is high maintenace, tan gets dirty and shows wear quickest, grey is somewhere in the middle but some think its a little too sterile or neutral, but that's just opinion. An interesting bit is that this color was used in the Carreras as "Boxster Red". The 911 Carrera was made to look like a Boxster and not the other way around. Boxsters were in production as early as 1996 and the style was incorporated into the 996 generation of Carreras that debuted in 1999, including the Boxster Red color.

Now regarding value. KBB means nothing right now. This country has never seen a car market or credit market like this one. The value of the car has nothing to do with the merits of the car like condition, mileage, options, etc. and has everything to do with how badly the seller needs to sell the car. The KBB is not even ballpark ......more like "state" park, however badly your state's economy is doing will be a greater factor. You can make a bid 30% below whatever KBB is claiming as the "value" and you have as good as ever shot of having that offer accepted. In other words there has never been a better time to be a buyer and a worse time to be seller. This is not a friend making process, go in with the rock bottom offer and keep increasting it (slightly) to see if you get their interest. If they don't respond to the slightly higher offer make a more aggresive offer. If still they don't respond, make a slightly higer offer on top of that to see if they aren't playing games as well. If still nothing WAIT..... I guarantee you will hear back if its a dealership. If it's a private seller they aren't desperate. Be VERY VERY stingy. That car isn't flying off the lot. You are in the unique position of being one of the few people interested and one of the fewer with money. THat car will be worth significantly less in a 12 months, maybe the fastest depreciation this economy has seen in cars. Be SURE to remind them of this during your negotiation, which should make them even more motivated to move the old merchandise. They need the money a lot more than you need to lose it.

p.s.
regarding the "girl's" car comments. They say that about ALL roadsters. Which tells you two things about the person making that comment. 1) they know nothing about Porsche and 2) they know nothing about high performance driving and mid engine handling. The comment that most impressed me was from a former amateur driver who was a life long friend (through competition) of a former F1 driver who now competes in America. In other words someone who knows what they are talking about. He said to me "this is the purest, most well balanced, best handling open top sports car you can buy. The seating position, the steering, the throttle it's all perfect." . He was more excited than me and I'd just bought the car!
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:25 AM   #9
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I have a 2001S with 56k miles

Medium option list. Needs nothing.

Last year I carried it on my books at $22k. This year it is sitting at $16k and I'd be lucky to get that.

Your target number is $15k. So offer $14k.

Don't fall in love with the first one you see, there are literally thousands for sale today somewhere.

Lots more thoughts on buying a Boxster here
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Old 03-01-2009, 10:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastback
...The red interior which I'm starting to like more is still worrying since I don't know if it's considered girly...

I read somewhere that a 'girl' car is defined as a model that was sold as a Barbie doll accessory.

Well, if that's true, then yes... the Boxster is a girl car:



But then, so is the Corvette, VW Beetle and Jeep CJ5, all standout cars and not a bad list to belong to.

And, who will ever forget Scuderķa Ferrari Barbie? Does that make Ferraris 'girly' too?





It doesn't matter if some consider it 'girly'... it only matters if YOU consider it 'girly'.

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Old 03-01-2009, 12:08 PM   #11
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Damn I shouldn't have spent my money for a life-size one.

http://www.buysellcommunity.com/sale/EZJZDHXD

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Old 03-01-2009, 02:32 PM   #12
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quick question to all:

if the Boxsters are averaging a loss of $4-5K a year, I'm sure my math is off, are these cars literally going to go to $5K or less at some point? Let's say you have an enthusiast owned Boxster that has been well maintained, paint is still shiny, no dings, interior is solid, engine runs fine, all maintenace is performed when does the depreciation for this car stop and value holds? That's what I'm looking forward to. I don't think I'm ever going to sell this car as long as garage space allows.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap
quick question to all:

if the Boxsters are averaging a loss of $4-5K a year, I'm sure my math is off, are these cars literally going to go to $5K or less at some point? Let's say you have an enthusiast owned Boxster that has been well maintained, paint is still shiny, no dings, interior is solid, engine runs fine, all maintenace is performed when does the depreciation for this car stop and value holds? That's what I'm looking forward to. I don't think I'm ever going to sell this car as long as garage space allows.

Good questions with no very clear answers, especilly for the long term.

Today, I believe there are 4 main factors influencing Boxster depreciation, some less and others more:

One is it's not so sterling reputation for dependability, high ownership costs and also performance. It's plagued with issues that cost a ton to fix and also offers less performance (excluding handling) than many lower priced cars costing much less to both buy and maintain.

2nd, Porsche has produced so many of them that rarity doesn't prop up their price in the used market - there are too many to choose from.

3rd, the economy right now (and probably for some time to come) is depressing all car prices, but especially those in the sports car and 'toy' car categories. This also goes for 'collectibles' as the recent round of high-end auctions (scottsdale, pebble beach, etc.) shows. In scottsdale this past month, a rare french car which was not sold at the RM auction in '06 at $660K - reserve price not met, failed to climb any higher than $330K this year (bet that owner sees a Jackass every time he now looks in the mirror!).

Finally, we are at the beginning of the end for all IC cars. Hybrids, Fuel Cell, Electrics are soon going to be widely available and steal the market for IC cars of all types. You'll see a slow (but steady) deterioration of the infrastructure for IC cars (mechanics, aftermarket, gas stations, etc.). It'll be almost imperceptible at first, but gain steady ground. One thing about our modern society is that we can very quickly saturate a market (can you remember a time when cell phones were uncommon?). The whole personal transportation market will look very different in just 10 yrs. time, and none of it will favor IC car prices.

All that said, those dedicated to keeping their cars will be able to fairly easily for probably another 25 yrs. And, the past few issues of Panorama have had several 'creampuff' '99s still offered in the $15k-$18k range (and one assumes they're selling because they aren't being carried over month-to-month). At least I hope so because that's where mine is going to appear next month.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:15 AM   #14
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^ sure there are pitfalls with owning the 996/986 engine, but there have been engine pitfalls with virtually every Porsche! Choose your poison $6K crate water cooled or $14-$20K air cooled rebuild (I'm guessing those rates have DOWN recently). It's always buyer beware with Porsche yet there is still a decent pool of enthusisasts for all the Porsche's 928, 944, 911, 993. You could well argue that the 986 and 996 are probably the lowest cost of ownership of any 'enthusiast' owned Porsche. Personally speaking my BoxsterS, believe it or not, has been the most trouble free 50K miles of any car I or any relative in my family has ever owned. Yes the Boxster!! The 2000 and newer evolution of Porsche reliability has been ground-breaking. Of course the engine design flawes are still a source of anxiety.

As for as performance.... Well there are a few cars out there that could give a Boxster a run for the money, certainly on a dollar basis. But I'll tell you what, if you sold my BoxsterS at current market values and I told you that you had to buy another car with an equal level of fun factor/excitement, classic styling, brand prestiege and performance--ALL these things not just a few-- You couldn't come back with a better car without spending more.
Well put it this way, park a second hand:

Porsche BoxsterS,
BMW Z3,
BMW Z4,
Honda S2000,
Mazda Miata Turbo,
Mercedes Benz SLK
Pontinac Solstice,
Saturn Sky

all parked next to each other (wow there are not many roadsters!), all with terrific maintenance and records, A+ condition, all with at least 50K miles, from different years-- to bring them all down to the same second hand price point let's say $12K....Which car is going to get the most buyers?
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap
^ sure there are pitfalls with owning the 996/986 engine, but there have been engine pitfalls with virtually every Porsche! Choose your poison $6K crate water cooled or $14-$20K air cooled rebuild (I'm guessing those rates have DOWN recently). It's always buyer beware with Porsche yet there is still a decent pool of enthusisasts for all the Porsche's 928, 944, 911, 993. You could well argue that the 986 and 996 are probably the lowest cost of ownership of any 'enthusiast' owned Porsche. Personally speaking my BoxsterS, believe it or not, has been the most trouble free 50K miles of any car I or any relative in my family has ever owned. Yes the Boxster!! The 2000 and newer evolution of Porsche reliability has been ground-breaking. Of course the engine design flawes are still a source of anxiety.

As for as performance.... Well there are a few cars out there that could give a Boxster a run for the money, certainly on a dollar basis. But I'll tell you what, if you sold my BoxsterS at current market values and I told you that you had to buy another car with an equal level of fun factor/excitement, classic styling, brand prestiege and performance--ALL these things not just a few-- You couldn't come back with a better car without spending more.
Well put it this way, park a second hand:

Porsche BoxsterS,
BMW Z3,
BMW Z4,
Honda S2000,
Mazda Miata Turbo,
Mercedes Benz SLK
Pontinac Solstice,
Saturn Sky

all parked next to each other (wow there are not many roadsters!), all with terrific maintenance and records, A+ condition, all with at least 50K miles, from different years-- to bring them all down to the same second hand price point let's say $12K....Which car is going to get the most buyers?
No Arguement here... what I said is that they are plagued with a: "not so sterling reputation for dependability, high ownership costs and also performance".

You're defending a position which was never mentioned. I simply replied to your question of depreciation with what I'm seeing out there. The car has issues with it's reputation in the gen'l. public, some well deserved. Like the Edsel, which was actually a very good, dependable car, it's just that no one wanted it - there was no niche for it in Ford's marketing scheme, but it was a fine car nonetheless. It's reputation for quality/dependability was born of the fact that no one bought it, not that it had actual issues.

Sure, if you can convince the gen'l public that it isn't all that expensive (i doubt that), and that it really does outperform the vette, Mitzu's, Subu's, 'Stangs, etc. (subjective and not likely to convince a stoplight racer (or equally important, his friends and girlfriend), etc.) ... and that this superior performance is worth all the other factors of ownership, then you'd see the prices rise and buyers aplenty.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:23 AM   #16
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well now that all the various segments of the 986 (96-99,00-02,03-04) are out there and getting their mileage racked up, I think we will start sifting the cars that you say are plagued with costly repairs from those which are plagued with anxiety. Maybe that will increase or decrease buyer anxiety. Seems to me, RMS and IS issue aside, that the earlier versions of the 986 have attributed for much of the problems. That's just my guess though. It just follows logic that a new model will have its quirks to work out. The IS issue is a huge hurdle (not so much the RMS, kinda overblown).... but will we see a rash of these detonating egines as the mileages start to climb? Or is it an issue that after a certain point the surviving fleet is mostly out of woods?

The other issue also (on depreciation) is that I don't really think this car is, well nicely preserved ones, are as common in the second hand market as people believe it to be. Sure they made a whole heck fo a lot of 996 and 986 vs. previous Porsches, certainly plenty enough to choose from NOW. But how many will be well maintained say 8 to 10 years from now? Several members on this forum have contacted me saying that its hard to find a well maintained Boxster, even in this economy, that a current owner is willing to part with at thse prices. Tons of high mileage, not so pristine cars out there just collecting snow and rain on used car lots. Who wants to spend a bunch of money on expensive paint, wheels and leather repair just to get a car back to stock? Sounds like track fodder to me....Generally speaking in the future I think folks are going to be much more demmanding with their limited toy car budgets in the future. The consumer is spending less and expecting more. That could be good news for enthusiast owned cars.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the long run.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:55 PM   #17
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Fastback, what did you decide?

If you didn't get it, I'd hold out for much younger car with lower miles on it. You'll have no regrets.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:28 PM   #18
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"The red interior which I'm starting to like more is still worrying since I don't know if it's considered girly. I don't think my fragile ego can take that punishment. Anyone here with a red interior boxster?"

Yep...me. I prefer to call it terracotta.

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