Learning to rev match downshift .. any tips?

[insite]

Originally Posted by markk

Blipping is imho done after selecting the next gear and before the clutch goes up. In practice I do it in parallel, i.e clutch in, selectnext gear AND blip, clutch up.

When you have mastered that, then try braking at the same time.
1. Brake hard with the top of your foot before a corner in high revs
2. Clutch in (during braking)
3. Blip the throttle with the bottom/heel of your feet AND select down gear with your hand - (still braking and clutch in)
4. Clutch up
5. Brake up
6. Steer into corner

this is pretty much the technique i use, except that i use the side of my foot to blip the throttle rather than my heel.

one thing to practice that leads to the above technique: while coasting in gear, give the throttle a SLIGHT blip while simultaneously pulling the shifter into neutral WITHOUT the clutch. if you do this right, the lever will easily slide out of gear.

for me, necessity was the mother of invention: when i was a teenager, i had a car that would stall out unless i stayed on the gas. to keep the motor alive, i learned to work the brake and gas with one foot. this lead to heel & toe; i do this ALWAYS, track or not.

[nefarious986]

Thanks for all the good words and advices friends. I just need a lot more practice. My head right now seems to want to declutch when my foot is on the gas to bleep. LOL.

Its so much fun and makes downshift so smooth when you get it right though, I cant imagine not doing it with every single downshift if I can do it properly.

Insite: Wouldn't your technique of blipping the throttle then shifting without clutch harm the tranny ?

[LoveBunny]

I think it just takes practice because to me it's just by feel/sound, but I couldn't specifically explain it. My mom went over it a lot with me when I was learning to drive so I guess I should consider myself lucky to have had the benefit of getting the hang of it in her Volvo.

[profpenguin]

If you are interested, search "downshift heal toe" on youtube.com. There is even one video of Senna in a white NSX with a camera showing his feet.

Cheers

[nefarious986]

Yeah, youtube is a good resource to watch, although there's also 5 min videos of some random guy showing you how to downshift .. just a regular downshift .. and him practicing it. LOL.

[stephen wilson]

Shifting into neutral without the clutch won't hurt anything as long as there's no load on the transmission from either acceleration or deceleration. You actually don't need to blip at all for the 1st downshift. For example: cruising in 4th with light throttle, lightly "preload" the shifter towards neutral with your hand, lift off of the gas, and the shifter will pop into neutral when the load is released from the engine/transmission.
Steve

[pbanders]

As others have suggested, the best way in the beginning to learn these techniques is to find an open, straight, safe road, and learn how to smoothly move from 4th to 3rd. Once you've gotten comfortable with this, you now work on other transitions, and at different speeds.

You'll find quickly that in "real life" situations, such as approaching a corner that requires braking while shifting, that you'll need to add in heel-and-toe technique to your downshifting. You'll need to experiement with what kind of foot placement works best for you (depends on your feet, flexibility, pedal configuration, etc. ). As your comfort level and ability grow, you can progress to using these techniques under more and more difficult situations, including on the track.

Learning the basics won't take long - becoming proficient will take longer - real mastery can take years. I'm still working on improving my techniques and I've had cars with manual boxes for 30 years.

[pbanders]

Another tip to note here is how you actually use the lever to engage the gear you're downshifting to. For the smoothest and lowest effort engagement, try the following (4-3 downshift example):

1. Lift and declutch, push lever out of 4th into neutral (fingertips or open palm, easy movement, hand stays on lever)
2. Blip throttle (blip should bring engine speed above matching speed for 3rd engagement - you figure this out by sound, feel, experience, etc.)
3. Push lever towards 3rd until you feel synchro engagement (fingertips or open palm)
4. Increase pressure until revs match and the lever slips into gear (heel of your palm)
5. Release clutch smoothly (a subject in itself) to complete the shift.

This method is in opposition to simply pushing the lever straight through from neutral into 3rd. The brief pause against the synchro assures the speeds are matched and wear is minimized, as well as smooth engagement.

Originally Posted by nefarious986

Thanks for all the good words and advices friends. I just need a lot more practice. My head right now seems to want to declutch when my foot is on the gas to bleep. LOL.

Its so much fun and makes downshift so smooth when you get it right though, I cant imagine not doing it with every single downshift if I can do it properly.

Insite: Wouldn't your technique of blipping the throttle then shifting without clutch harm the tranny ?

One thing is certain, these are expensive learning vehicles, thank god growing up we had throw down VW's , Fiat 600's , 850's and 124's to speed shift and tear apart before they went to the junkyard. Much easier to learn when it doesn't matter if you blow her up! Having said that, I agree with the other poster who noted it's a lifelong refinement and different with different cars, maybe someday when I'm working again, I'l acquire the PDK and the search for the perfect shift will be over Johnny!!!

[Bry]

Originally Posted by insite

for me, necessity was the mother of invention: when i was a teenager, i had a car that would stall out unless i stayed on the gas. to keep the motor alive, i learned to work the brake and gas with one foot. this lead to heel & toe; i do this ALWAYS, track or not.

I learned rev-matching in a similar fashion. Once apon a time I had a car with bad - as in, nonexistent - synchros, so I learned to rev match naturally just so I could shift without grinding every gear. I still to this day do this with every shift.

Keep practicing. Try using smooth driving techniques everyday. When you start doing track events, you'll be amazed how much faster these techniques will make you.

[pbanders]

914's are notorious for having starting problems related to a combination of heat and poor design of the current path for the solenoid (goes from the battery, up to the ignition key, then back to the solenoid - no relay!). As a result, you learn all kinds of ways to start it. I've started it with the "rolling clutch" technique on a downhill, and also have push started it myself (push like hell, jump in, pop the clutch). Another exciting trick is to get your "assistant" (i.e. current girlfriend) to turn the key to the start position, while you are lying on the ground behind the driver's side rear tire, with your jack handle in hand, underneath the car, whacking on the solenoid to get it to free up and engage. Always a good idea to have her check TWICE that the car isn't in gear, especially reverse.

[FTD]

Originally Posted by pbanders

Another exciting trick is to get your "assistant" (i.e. current girlfriend) to turn the key to the start position, while you are lying on the ground behind the driver's side rear tire, with your jack handle in hand, underneath the car, whacking on the solenoid to get it to free up and engage. Always a good idea to have her check TWICE that the car isn't in gear, especially reverse.

Hilarious.

I had a bag of bolts that eventually needed a new ignition switch [or something] and I had all of the ignition stuff taken apart / removed and kept a standard head screw driver on the floor board for 'hot wiring' the car. I did a lot of roll starting with that car too.