True cost to own - used Boxster??

[23109VC]

I've been lurking here a while, done a few posts - and have been collecting lots of info. I've spent quite a bit of time on autotrader.com reviewing prices on used boxsters as well.

No need to "sell" me on the boxster. I have driven them and absolutely LOVE the car. I am in the market for a small two seat roadster as a third car / toy. I plan to drive it to from work and on weekends. I might track it once a year for fun - nothign hardcore, just those one day "fun" track events where you run around on the track with other novices.

The car will primarily be for top down / fun driving - either to/from work and on weekends with my wife or I can take my 6 year old son - provided there are no airbag problems on the passenger side...

I am looking at cars in the 15-20k price range. Given my budget, that is about what I am comfortable spending on a used car. I feel I have gained quite a bit of knowledge abou the car - the ONE thing that is a BIG unknown is the cost of repairs / maintenance.

I know this is a HUGE unknown and can vary tremendously from car to car. Which is why ANY car I buy would get a PPI at a dealer.

so assuming I get a 2000-2002 model, that has 50-75k on the odometer - which is probaby what I would end up getting for the price range I'm looking at - maybe something with slightly less miles, but I doubt I'd be able to afford one much newer.

Aside from obvious costs like tires, brakes, and other consumables - I'm thinking of unknowns like water pumps, suspension parts (shocks/ bushings) and other random mechanical stuff that goes wrong on cars of this age/mileage - the big question is:

WHAT KIND OF ANNUAL BUDGET SHOULD I REALISTICALLY EXPECT FOR ROUTINE MAINTENANCE AND UNEXPECTED MAINTENANCE ON A 2000-2002 CAR WITH ASAY 75K MILES ON IT??

I plan to drive 10-12k / year. I'm thinking at least $1500-2000/year would cover me for the next three years or from 75000 - 110k range... or is that way high or way low?

Here is why I ask - the one other car which I am considering is the Honda S2k. I honestly don't like it as much, but I have driven it, and in terms of driving dynamics - it's "similar" two seater, roadster, tight, and fun to drive. they are very different in power delivery, sound, looks - and if money were no object i'd buy the boxster and never look back.

given my budget constraints however - I am attracted to the s2k. i could lease a new 08 for about what I'd be paying per month on the boxster...if you factor in reapairs/upkeep the NEW s2k might actually be cheaper on a total cost of ownershp comparison than the boxster. right now, a new 08 s2k can be leased for absolutely ZERO down, and around $400/month total including taxes.

granted, at the end of the lease I own nothing - but over the life of the lease, the actual total costs are goin to be known and fixed. the new car won't break, it won't be in/out of the shop,, and all i'll be on the hook for is the payment, gas, tires, and some brakes. if someting does go wrong, it's on Honda to fix it.

if I get a used 2000 boxster or boxster S, and were to 100% finance 20k, over say 60 months, I'm looking at slighly over $400/month. over the first three years - who knows how much I'll pay in repairs. i'll still have to buy tires/ brakes/ etc..that's a wash car vs car - but if the boxster i buy has 75k on it - i could easily be looking at several thousand in repairs if anyting remotely $$ broke.

if I kept the boxste the full 5 years - at the end, i'd have an asset, albeit it's depreciated..but it will have SOME net worth in 5 years. say 8-10k? i dunno. the s2k lease is up and turned in in 3 years... very hard to compare apples to oranges..

given my budget, my urge is to get the boxster b/c I'd like it more, but being on a fixed budget for a toy car - the s2k might get me 90% of the fun, on a price tag I can budget for and not be suprised with.

can anyone give me a realistic ESTIMATE as to what they have had to spend on repairs on their used boxster? or give me the ranges of what I may or could get hit with on a used boxster? assuming I bought one current on maintanenance and that was not a total wreck??

thanks.

[husker boxster]

You have lots of good questions and an interesting situation. Here's my $.02 on some of your questions:

Your annual budget of $1500-2000 is reasonable. That should cover most of the maintenance on nuisance things. That would even cover an RMS repair, but not IMS.

Porsche parts are expensive period. Expect to pay 2-4 times the cost of "normal" parts. But Porsche isn't any more expensive than other luxury cars, so if you've owned other expensive cars, the price shouldn't be a shock to you. Many Boxster owners move up from Miatas, MR2s etc and it can be eye popping when purchasing Porsche parts. Just part of the price of admission into the big boy's club.

You don't mention if you are mechanically inclined. Boxsters are relatively easy to work on (sometimes you need small hands), and there's lots of info available to the casual mechanic thru this and other forums or with a Bentley manual. You could save yourself quite a few dollars if you do some of the work yourself.

Or if you're not into greasey hands and skinned knuckles, you could look for an independant mechanic who works on Porsches. This will also save you a bunch of money vs taking it to the Porsche dealership. But beware, not all indy mechanics are honest - read the thread on the poor luck someone had in Atlanta. Check around, ask other Porsche owners, and be sure the person is good before you leave your baby with him.

Finally, something you might want to consider is looking for a Certified Pre-Owned car from Porsche. They will CPO cars in the vintage you're looking for. It'll probably cost you $2K more than a non-CPO (about a years worth of your maint budget) but you'll have 2 yrs of coverage. It's not bumper to bumper but covers the things most Boxster owners fear. I traded an 01S with 43K mi in on my LE and the dealer CPO'd my trade-in. Check the Porsche dealer's websites for CPO cars.

Don't know much about Honda S2Ks, so I'll leave others to comment about them.

[Jump]

The cost of owning a used car is a total crap shoot, regardless of the brand. Granted, my 2002 is low mileage but I've owned it for 2 years and my only costs have been gas and 2 oil changes. A bigger question may be is if you go with the S2K, how are you going to feel every time you pull up next to a Boxster? Will you or will you not regret your decision? Buying a Porsche is largely an emotional decision. It sounds like you've been bitten by the bug. I'd say, life is too short. If you want a Box, go for it! Do your homework and get a PPI. You'll find a way to make it work.

[Lil bastard]

I think $1500-$2000/yr. is a little high... of course the actual car and your driving skill (not to mention itchy modding finger) can all change that.

My advice is to establish a dedicated $5k war chest for major repairs. Let it sit and grow in the Bank until and if needed. Withdraw the earnings annually to help offset minor repairs and maintenance.

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

I think $1500-$2000/yr. is a little high... of course the actual car and your driving skill (not to mention itchy modding finger) can all change that.

My advice is to establish a dedicated $5k war chest for major repairs. Let it sit and grow in the Bank until and if needed. Withdraw the earnings annually to help offset minor repairs and maintenance.

Today's earnings on 5k are more like offsetting one oil change, but, hey, that covers 10k miles and look at the fun you'll have in 10k in your Box.
Go for an S and forget the Honda. That 3.2 S motor will pull an S2000 right out it's own ass.
Besides, you wanna be a ricer? You could get one of those tomato can mufflers......

[JCL12]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

WHAT KIND OF ANNUAL BUDGET SHOULD I REALISTICALLY EXPECT FOR ROUTINE MAINTENANCE AND UNEXPECTED MAINTENANCE ON A 2000-2002 CAR WITH ASAY 75K MILES ON IT??

I plan to drive 10-12k / year. I'm thinking at least $1500-2000/year would cover me for the next three years or from 75000 - 110k range... or is that way high or way low?

I'm not a fan of the leasing idea unless you have the option to buy at a massive discount at the end of the lease. Considered looking at a used s2k as well?

For the Pcar option, my gut feeling tells me that from an expected value perspective, $2,000 should be sufficient for that mileage range even though many normal wear/tear components may come due. The problem for you is that we live in the real world and the real world has variance. If you get a boxster that is fully up to date on maintenance and just got things like a new clutch, water pump, brake job, etc in recent times you may come waaaaay under the 2K/yr average. If your engine blows up after 1000 miles you are totally SOL.

If you buy a boxster with many failing/old components then you'll be setting yourself up for trouble. Since you are going the route of PPI before any purchase, hopefully you can identify and potential trouble components that are near end of life and avoid a maintenance hog. That said, ever if you address the issues of identifiable potential hardware failures on the car you can't detect things like IMS failure. Read these forums and be aware of the risks.

[RandallNeighbour]

If you don't have enough saved for an 03+ Boxster S, wait and save up to get one.

The glass rear window and newer everything on our cars is important.

This comes from one who bought an old boxster with 84k on it and needed EVERYTHING replaced. :ah:

[23109VC]

thanks for the input.

I know the boxster is faster. the only boxster I've driven quite a bit is my dad's - a 2000 base - and even though it's rated at less hp than the s2k, I swear it feels faster than the s2ks i test drove. for real world driving, the higher torque makes it faster is normal driving.

i'll have to test an S and see how much more I like it vs the base. the base I've driven (dad's) has 18s, and the M030 suspension upgrade...thing is glued to the road - absolutely the best handling car I"ve ever driven, and I've driven some great handling cars...

life is short. that's why I'm looking at two seater roadsters. I have the family car, i have a good back/forth to work beater car - and the one thing I constantly wish for and miss is a two seat roadster. i had a miata in college and loved it. i want that "Fun" with more power. i'm 35, a professional - and while the s2k is a good bargain and reliable - and while I don't think it's nearly as fast 'n furious as something like an EVO or STi, it is kind of boy racerish.. the boxster would be perfect.

thanks again!

[Paul]

Most cars will incur higher than normal maintenance costs between 70,000 to 120,000 miles, I'd avoid cars in that range.

[fatmike]

If you work at it -- you can probably find a Boxster with much lower miles than that (75K) in your price range.

I bet you can find a garage queen base '02 with 20K miles for $20K or less.

Good luck.

[E Kaplan]

Bought a 2000 Boxster with 30,000 miles this year for $18,250. Car had the 30,000 mile check up at a local Porsche dealership done within the year. Found the owner on autotrader. So far, with over 4,000 additional miles, no problems. Chose to buy a lower mileage based car, instead of an S with 70+ thousand miles for the same money.

If you are very concerned about repair costs, I am considering an extended warranty. The best I found is a 48 K or 4 year bumper to bumper for $2,100.00. For an additional $200, they will pay for seal repairs. Not sure if I am going to purchase this, but not a bad price.

Eric

[ekam]

As Randall said, get at least an 03 MY.

Don't forget if you get an older S at 250hp is not that far off to a newer 03+ base model at 228hp. I doubt your butt dyno can really tell the difference.

I'd say get the base model but buy some really sticky tires for the twisties instead.

[pbanders]

Costs are variable, depends a lot on the car you buy. If you're lucky, you only will need regular maintenance, tires, and brakes. Not lucky, you'll need an RMS, your window motors will fail, O2's will go, MAF, etc. If you do your own work, and you're good, you'll save over 50% of the cost of repairs by avoiding paying for labor, assuming you already have the tools ($$) and access to facilities ($$).

In my experience, most people generally under-estimate the true cost of ownership of any car. My suggestion is that unless you can afford regular maintenance and the cost of likely repair (and on Boxsters, this has to include the possiblity of engine replacement), then buy a cheaper to own and maintain vehicle, and wait until you can afford what you really want.

RE: aftermarket warranties - I have one, but if you read postings here, getting them to pay for a major repair can be difficult. Caveat emptor.

[renzop]

I hate to say this but if you fit comfortably in an S2K, a lease on a new one is certainly a better value.

But recognize that the S2K is not nearly as good a commuter car as a Boxster. It is noisier, rides rougher, requires more shifting and has less trunk space.

Of course your lease payment is not the only expense. The S2K will eat rear tires about as fast as the Boxster so figure $400 for tires per year (not covered by your lease) and Honda has no free maintenance so figure $125 twice/year for routine maintenance. Finally there's insurance. Make sure you get insurance quotes for both cars. Since the Boxster is only half the price of the S2K you may find you pay more for S2K insurance. Also I believe the S2K rate will be more than the Boxster rate - even comparing new to new. This mainly because Porsche owners are older on average than Honda owners and Porsches accumulate far fewer miles per year.

The S2K is a good car. It does not have the Porsche mystique but it will still be a very fun drive. Like the Boxster, it has some mechanical issues but they will be covered by your new car warranty.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your decision with no regrets. Life is short, why not live it as a blonde?

[BoxsterLewis]

I test drove both cars and there is no way i'd drive the s2k. I'd chose my 01 S with 80K and cheap 2 year warrenty hands down over a 08 S2000, i guess im partial to Porsche since it adds, not everyone has one and drives way better factor lol.

[chaudanova]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, since I just skimmed the thread, but keep in mind, that these cars eat up the rear tires pretty quickly... Driving 10-12k miles a year, you'll probably be looking at a new set of tires each year... the rears will be the ones that you'll burn through twice the rate of the fronts...

I know some people happen to be able to pull off getting more miles out of their rears, but on average, I estimate about 10k on the rears... people ranging from 6k-20k at opposite ends of the spectrum... but most people I've seen get 8-12k... My current set, about 8k on them, and looking to be replaced right now...

And like some have mentioned, you can do most jobs on your own using the knowledge from these forums and a Bentley manual...

[racer_d]

To me, at the 50-75K mile range, I would start to worry about Clutch replacement ($1500), New shocks/springs (eh, $1000-2000), Regular maintenance (oil/filter, plugs, sensors, waterpump, serpantine belt etc); At 12K miles a year, likely a set of tires. Now, I admit some of these will be "one time" items for you, but clearly, it could cost you $5K to re-baseline you car to be "good" for another 30K miles.

Other regular worries- switch failures, cracking the plastic rear window, MAFs/O2 sensors. Maybe even Cats as you approach 80-100K miles... plus the usual IMS, RMS issues that may or may never affect the car you find.

[HB986]

I have said before, the wisdom in buying any particular Porsche depends upon why you are buying a Porsche. I bought an '02 S with 35k. A year later it has 51k. CV boots and an AC compressor are the only things that have required replacement. Yes, rear tires will be needed at the end of Summer, but so what.

I drive mine everyday, and when the ole girl fails me it will be time for a 3.6 conversion. H&R's will replace the springs when needed, and a FabSpeed will also take the place of the PSE. I didn't buy my Box to trade or upgrade. I bought it because I simply loved the 986 body-style......and I sought out an '02 because my personal tastes did not agree with the rear diffuser or front fascia of the '03.

So, if you are simply buying a 'car,' then you should find something cheaper. If, however, you want to own a particular Porsche, then find the best example you can, drive the pi$$ out of it, and put your hobby $$$'s into it.

That's what the guys that visited my Uncle's garage did back in the day. A Porsche was identified by its owner and its modifications----for years. My theory may be financially irresponsible, but there are no guarantees in life, are there?

[David N.]

It's not just engine power which distinguishes an S from a regular boxster, there's also better brakes, one more gear, slightly more torque (which you DO feel), larger wheels stock, and a stiffer ride. I'm not sure it completely outweighs a newer car with a glass rear window, but don't forget to add those details to the equation.

[mikefocke]

slot machines will pay out for a few, but not for most.

Here are some statistics from an extended warranty company.

Over 1 year 12k miles on an out-of-original-warranty car (all makes):
<1% will spend more than $3,700 on maintenance
4% will spend more than $1,700

I bought a Boxster base with 22k miles, in 6 months and 8k miles, I had zero repair costs. Then I totaled it.

I bought a Boxster S with 43K miles. In 4 years and 13k miles, I've spent an average of ~$15 per month in unscheduled maintenance costs. It has never not started or failed to get me where I was going. I do more maintenance than is scheduled (did 60k at 45k, for example, just so I knew what had been done) but always go to cheap places or do-it-myself where I can. The thought of paying the dealer $200 for an oil change when the local JiffyLube equivalent will do it for $25 if I provide the oil and filters appeals to me.