Boxster Killer?

[Jeannot]

Originally posted by scubaguy10

Likewise, the 350Z costs about $36,000, and has 287 HP! It may have cheap, nasty interior, problems with front tire wear and some other shortcomings, but it's clearly more bang for the buck. If Porsche hopes to compete with the Japs and the other competition, they need to recognize the moving nature of the target, and the fact that the Boxster (without the cachet of the 911) needs to be price competitive.

I am not sure Porsche HOPES to compete with the Japs. Porsche is a luxury brand. If you look on the home page of this site, it says "FRANKFURT, Germany - Luxury carmaker Porsche AG said Tuesday it plans to launch the much-anticipated new version of its iconic 911 sports car across Europe on July 17." The Japs HOPE to compete with Porsche, offering a product with more gadget, more HPs and whatever...Brand positionning and pricing are totally different, and so are the customers in my opinion. GUCCI does not HOPE compete with GAP. Porsche high-end 911s are prices against the Ferrrari Modena. The "regular" 911 against the Maserati etc. Why would the Boxster need to be price against Nissan? On top of that, the Boxster is a unique product offering with it's engine layout. "More bang for the buck" isn't only a HP/$ ratio.

[Subanez]

Its an interesting argument. As has been argued about in the past, the Boxster was released largely as a way for Porsche to make money in sales to fuel the production of its higher-end cars, and to continue R&D to make their vehicles that much better.

Although we all must agree on some level that Porsches are superior vehicles, you gotta consider that if Porsche loses sales to these other marques, that could hurt the Porsche name. Not now, and maybe not next year, but in 5 or 10 years, if they lose enough sales, we won't keep seeing the new 911 series blowing away all competition.

So we SHOULD be worried that these other carmakers are coming up with items that will woo the market to buy their cars. For people that are looking to get a fast car, even a car that could "beat a porsche," (as so many people seem to want to do), there are many options out there.

For the enthusiast--like most of us--there isn't a choice, nothing can touch a porsche in our minds. But remember that the general public with enough money to buy a porsche doesn't always understand what that means, and to be frank, a lot of them don't really care.

I could keep going, but I'll stop for now... :-)

[Jeannot]

If you look at Porsche AG's financials, they are beating every year their records...Ok, the Cayenne added to their income...but still, their sales are doing ok. They have just introduced two new models (997/987) and they have no reason to change that positionning...

[Seth Bullock]

I owned a new 250Z Track model before owning my 2001 boxster S and there is NO comparison in ANY way of a Nissan and a Porsche!!!!!!!!

[Brucelee]

VW quality????

I don't think so Tim!

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by QporscheQ

In terms of "just" price, Porsche should be more expensive if for no other reason than production numbers. Worldwide Porsche sales (all models) this year will be in the tens of thousands range (approx half Cayennes too) while Honda and Nissan sales will be in the millions. So does it really surprise you that there is a 10:1 S2K to Boxster ratio at SCCA? Your Boxster has a lot more Porsche overhead money in it then some guy's Honda or Nissan, its also far better looking

One of the things that I really like about my Boxster is that in terms of the automotive world there really aren’t all that many of them (or us owners). I don’t want a car that everybody else has...

Wait a minute. There are between 8 - 9,000 S2K's for US in each production year. Boxster, began production in '97, outnumbers the S2K on the road. If it is exclusivity that you seek, you bought the wrong car.

Despite that, the number of S2K's in my local auto-x and SCDA track events far outnumbers the 911's and Boxsters combine, though not quite as drastic as the 10:1 ratio aforementioned for the SCCA. I'll leave it to you to figure out why that is. I can tell you one thing though: all S2K drivers can drive a stick; no bimbo-blonde, trophy-wife, blvd-cruisers there.

As for overhead, S2K is the only other RWD car in the company and it shares zero parts w/ its siblings. Everything from its x-bone frame to its mid-engine layout to its interior is designed from scratch... with great success. They were also built - hand-assemble, I might add - in a Japanese plant dedicated to only the S2K and NSX. So they are not exactly saving much money from labor or shipping either.

[Brucelee]

Here is a rule on price.

Supply AND demand.

It IS that simple.

[lexuspilot]

When someone asks what kind of car I drive, I say "Porsche"....that's it.

Who wants to say "Honda, but it's a S2000, know what that is? It doesn't share components with other hondas, and it outnumbers the other cars at my SCCA"

or "Volkswagon, but it's not a wagon, it's a roadster...I mean it's not a bug or a jetta it's a mid-engine roadster". I feel worse for the Phaeton folks, they can't even say what price they paid to make it more credible.

I never hear a Porsche owner qualify his purchase. There are other nice cars, but in other ways.

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by lexuspilot

When someone asks what kind of car I drive, I say "Porsche"....that's it.

Who wants to say "Honda, but it's a S2000, know what that is? It doesn't share components with other hondas, and it outnumbers the other cars at my SCCA"

or "Volkswagon, but it's not a wagon, it's a roadster...I mean it's not a bug or a jetta it's a mid-engine roadster". I feel worse for the Phaeton folks, they can't even say what price they paid to make it more credible.

I never hear a Porsche owner qualify his purchase. There are other nice cars, but in other ways.

That's OK b/c not everyone needs to be a "brand-whore." You see, some people enjoy a car for what it truely is, not how it reflects upon you. Those are the people that I'd like be associated with and be friends with. Sadly, your notion typifies many sports car owners nowaday.

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Here is a rule on price.

Supply AND demand.

It IS that simple.

LOL Com'on Rich, you know that's fairy-tale textbook stuff that they teach to freshmen. We all know the bean-counters and marketing folks predetermined the product, supply, and price, and then hope their predicted demand will follow suit. Your concept holds true if demand exceeds supply/price. If demand is below supply, the "sticky price" effect had cause a company to go bankrupt (a la Porsche in late early 90's) and still price won't reach an equilibrium w/ supply and demand.

The 987 and 997 are truely great cars, and will no doubt bolster Porsche's brand name and pocket book. I hope I don't come across as a Porsche basher.

[Lux]

Whoa there. Let's not get all high and mighty calling people brand whores. Just go to the S2K website and do a search on "boxster". You see people ragging on the Boxster and claiming the superiority of the S2K (facts...Boxster < S2K < Boxster S). I'd say that's a bit of brand whoring on their part...no?

And your claims of every S2K driver knowing how to drive stick...that's a bit of bull**************** pride. And seeing more S2K's at the autocross? BFD. Maybe more Boxster owners prefer the track to driving around in parking lots.

Here's the bottom line...the S2K is being discontinued even with a modest price of $30K. Meanwhile, the Boxster continues to sell. Maybe Honda should've came out with automatics so they can continue to sell cars. Interestingly, what are the 2 cars that don't sell well at Honda? NSX and S2K. Does Honda not know how to make a sports car?


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[kajita]

i use to own a 350z touring, got friends who owns Z's, S2000, 996, M3's, WRX and so fourth. as you can see its a variety of cars and we all love what we drive. we all sit and bash each others cars for fun and get a kick out of it. but at the end of the each bashing nights with a cold one in our hands, we always end up complimenting each others cars for what they stand for and what it is capable of $ for $. so i dont think when we say "i drive a Porsche", we are brand-whores, we are the furthest thing fromit. we, box owners are probably the most loyal, anal, maticulous, automibile owners out there. we're just proud of what we have and drive even after spending ton of $$ for litronics, clear tail lights, MAF, the list goes on. but most importantly, all of my friends, after complimenting each others cars, they say, "shoot, i would rather drive your porsche anyday".
do you (No Name) think i will ever tell my friends who drives a kick ass wrx, S2000, Supercharged Z's that will do circles around my box that "I would rather have your car anyday"....????
i dont think that day will come anytime soon cuz i am already planning for a 2007 987. so buddy, you gotta love what you drive, dont matter if it is hand made, separate plant, etc, etc,...
I got a 2000 box, 3x black, been rear ended, but i still love that thing like you would not believe....... it completes me.

[No_Name]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest Boxster owners are brand-whores.

But you got to admit, anyone who says this:
"When someone asks what kind of car I drive, I say "Porsche"....that's it.

Who wants to say "Honda, but it's a S2000, know what that is? It doesn't share components with other hondas, and it outnumbers the other cars at my SCCA"

... certainly does sound like one.


Current MY00 S2000 owner
MY05 BS owner in 6/05

[Porschekid]

Originally Posted by No_Name

Everything from its x-bone frame to its mid-engine layout to its interior is designed from scratch... with great success.

mid-engine?

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by Lux

Whoa there. Let's not get all high and mighty calling people brand whores. Just go to the S2K website and do a search on "boxster". You see people ragging on the Boxster and claiming the superiority of the S2K (facts...Boxster < S2K < Boxster S). I'd say that's a bit of brand whoring on their part...no?

And your claims of every S2K driver knowing how to drive stick...that's a bit of bull**************** pride. And seeing more S2K's at the autocross? BFD. Maybe more Boxster owners prefer the track to driving around in parking lots.

Here's the bottom line...the S2K is being discontinued even with a modest price of $30K. Meanwhile, the Boxster continues to sell. Maybe Honda should've came out with automatics so they can continue to sell cars. Interestingly, what are the 2 cars that don't sell well at Honda? NSX and S2K. Does Honda not know how to make a sports car?
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Read enough on the S2K board and you’ll find at least 5 praises for every 1 criticism for the Boxster. The criticisms are generally about the cost, not the car itself.

FYI The SCDA events I mentioned are road course track events. They run on NHIS, LimeRock, and Watkins Glen. Just about everyone there – F-guys, P-guys, Vette-guys – are great people and a joy to chat with. Maybe most Porsche folks race within their own PCA circle, I don’t know.

S2000 is not being discontinued. I don’t know where you learn that rumor from. They sell just about as many units as Boxsters each year even without AT. They are not the hot items they once were, but they are doing OK.

[No_Name]

Originally Posted by Porschekid

mid-engine?

Yes, mid-engine. I knew someone would bite. I'll give you a chance to redeem youself if you can explain why that is.

[Porschekid]

Originally Posted by No_Name

Yes, mid-engine. I knew someone would bite. I'll give you a chance to redeem youself if you can explain why that is.

You call it mid-engine because the engine is behind the axle. Everyone else calls it front engine because it is front engine. Every review and write-up of the car I have read describes it as front engine rear wheel drive.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=33&article_id=7579

[RandallNeighbour]

According to the photo, the engine is fully behind the front wheels. So on a technicality, it's a mid engine automobile. Just not where we Boxster owners think it belongs.

Bet it doesn't take the twisties as well as a boxster either.

[Lux]

Read enough on the S2K board and you’ll find at least 5 praises for every 1 criticism for the Boxster. The criticisms are generally about the cost, not the car itself.
Your ratios are screwed. It's more like 5 to 1 against. I've read s2ki plenty.


FYI The SCDA events I mentioned are road course track events. They run on NHIS, LimeRock, and Watkins Glen. Just about everyone there – F-guys, P-guys, Vette-guys – are great people and a joy to chat with. Maybe most Porsche folks race within their own PCA circle, I don’t know.
Exactly. You don't know. Yet that didn't stop you from insinuating that there's less Porsches running due to having more poseurs. And flat out claiming that there's "no blonde bimbos" driving S2K's, again insinuating owners are poseurs. Guess what...? Nobody F'in cares. Bottom line is the Boxster S is a superior car to the S2K. Bimbo or not.


S2000 is not being discontinued. I don’t know where you learn that rumor from.
I guess I know your car better than you. That "rumor" is mentioned more often than not on s2ki. Why don't you give me the info on the new gen S2K then? Surely they have something in the works? However, I'm sure you won't be able to produce anything. The '06 model year, if there is one, will be exactly like every previous gen. That's forever in Japanese car cycle. I'm guessing the NSX is the longest running generation ever. Even the Corvette has changed since then. OUCH!


They sell just about as many units as Boxsters each year even without AT. They are not the hot items they once were, but they are doing OK.
Porsche is a boutique car maker. They deal with low volumes by having higher prices. An S2K that only sells in the 20K volume range at $30K is a failure for a manufacturer like Honda.

And by the way, stop pretending you own a midengined car. A "front-midengine" is a marketing term. The only real midengined configuration that matters is when the engine is behind the driver.

Every S2K owner I've met has had this cocky attitude like 120hp/L means something. And every one that I've ran has gotten their ass kicked, even in my old E36 M3.

Oh, but the S2K is a great car. I'm not trying to Honda bash.




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[No_Name]

I know what other people call it, but would you agree with it? S2000 is as much an FR as the Boxster is an RR. What distinguishes them from either spectrum is the fact that both cars’ engine weight is kept between the F/R axles - thus mid-engine - and its advantage is just as equivalent for both cars. You’ll find the more studious car magazines (Car, EVO, etc.) do cknowledge that the S2000 does have a MR layout but stuck with the FR moniker.

Fwiw, S2000 actually has slightly better weight distribution (51/49) than Boxster. So, RandallNeighbour, your bet has just a good a chance on a Russian Roulette.
Then again, according to SCCA “parking lot” racing…