Leftover '06 models?

[BoxsterBob - CA]

While I think Boxsters look great in white, it certainly isn't the most popular color. I see several Boxsters a day and rarely see them in white. Silver, black & red seem move off the lot faster.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by cfos

"As for "why would you buy Boxster if you can afford more?". That's the logic of someone who really isn't into driving sports cars. More someone who is into collecting and flaunting them. I'm a SINK, single income no kids. I only spent $30K on my sports car but could well have spent much more. Had a loan check good for up to $100K when I signed the paper work. But spending more would have been absolutely "bling bling" motivated. I'm not a poser."

I agree with Dr. Kill and I dunno if I buy your "logic". I would think a Ferrari 360 or a 430 is also a "sports car" (have you driven either?) and one (or the other) I'd much rather own than a Boxster. Rather, I think your opinion is more of a sense of Boxster-pride, not-that-there's-anything-wrong-with-that. Of course, I'm not saying I am a "car" guy and I don't participate in autocross, etc. so take that statement as you will. Of course, you have to ask yourself why seemingly everyone on this forum is down on people that own, drive and enjoy "ricers". I'm sure their opinion of Porsche owners falls in the same caste system as people here view ferraris. Nothing more than a shifting scale.

As for the amount you spent and the amount you could have spent, you do realize the increasing rate of bankruptcy in the good 'ole USA because people are taking out more than they should... close to their limits and not being able to pay for it 2-3 years down the road...? It was probably very wise not to go closer to the $100 K limit. I think that is just more good financial sense rather than good car sense. Again, just an opinion.

See allot of people lump all sports cars together. That's not right.
You have coupes, roadsters, convertibles (sorta a sports car), GTs, exotics, track only sports cars. In its category, the Boxster probably is the best car. Endless numbers of reviews by journalists and professional drivers have backed this. In my opinion the s2000 is just as good when driven fast but non-performance factors work for and against the Honda.

as for my budget, as much as I screwed up in my formative years I can knock on wood and thank the big man up above that a $100K car would not have exceeded 7% of my earnings (financed over 5 years). So to have spent less than half and have basically everything a more expensive car has is a win win. I now find myself having to look in other categories because I really don't think I'll do better other than just buying a newer version of what I have now. Which doesn't really appeal to me.

p.s.
Have driven the 360 (in New Orleans back in 2000) never drove the newer ones.
Probably my favorite cars of all time in the coupe category. My buddy here in Jersey has one and his neighbohr on the left has a Murcielago and his neighbohr on the right has one too! But if I were to blow that kind of money on a Coupe or GT I'd go for Maserati Gransport in pearl white, with an Aston Martin DB9 close to behind. Ferraris are becoming very 1990's...

[cfos]

"See allot of people lump all sports cars together. That's not right.
You have coupes, roadsters, convertibles (sorta a sports car), GTs, exotics, track only sports cars. In its category, the Boxster probably is the best car."

I probably fall into that group of people, although I ask: Where is the glossery of sports cars and what is the Boxster's category? Convertible? That's what my insurance company says... If that's the case, wouldn't you say that it is only "sorta" a sports car, then? Judging by how many I see, I don't think it is that "exotic"... Not really a "GT" especially since Porsche did produce a Carrerra GT model... not really a track-only car judging by how many forum goers don't necessarily drive exclusively on the track... Possibly a roadster? What is the difference between a roadster and a convertible? When I hear "roadster" I usually think of older cars that have been souped-up. As for coup, I usually think of a hardtop although I'm not sure if the definition has to deal with being a two-seater as many manufacturers seem to consider the necessary requirement of the"coup" designation as having 2 doors. So what category does it rank "best" in? From what I've read in magazines, it typically ranks well in sports cars within a certain price range.

[Perfectlap]

A Convertible is a car that probably existed as a coupe at one point and to increase sales they decided to hack off the roof. But thats not a strict rule.
Audi A4, S4, TT'; Porsche 911 Cabriolet; BMW 3series, M3 convertible etc.

A roadster is a car designed to be a drop top from the get go. There's a long long history of these cars the British variety stand out the most. Triumphs, Lotus Elan, etc. And recently you Miata, Boxster, S2000 and Z3...all very succesful
Essentially roadster is rwd, two seats, long hood and short wheel base..not very practical.

GT is a grand touring car. Its the Oprah Winfrey of cars, expensive and heavy.
The 911 has essentialy become a GT. They get heavier and heavier and more and more expensive loaded with creature comforts. Not sure why they decided to brand the Carrera GT with the "GT". Its the last car in the world you would want to spend a long drive on wehre you can feel every seam in highway asphalt and the gear shift feels like a Peterbilt. If anything they should have called it the Carrera LMP. That car was never intended to be a street car, which may be the most extreme type of Exotic.

Me thinks a sports car is essentialy a car that is extremely well suited for the track. The more 'civilized' it becomes, (more than two seats, higher and longer stance, more weight,etc.) the less of a sports car it becomes (I think EVO and STI are the rare exceptions). If you visit your average track or autocross you'll notice its predominantly the same 10 or 11 cars no matter where you go, even though the 'sports car world' features dozens, most are pretenders! more luxury than fun.

The more cars I drive these days, some very expensive, the more I realize what an excellent job Porsha did with essentialy the first true roadster in its history. A second hand S2000 and Boxster are excellent, excellent sports cars. You can spend more but you aren't really getting allot of added performance for each dollar.

[Topless]

To summarize,

Yes Boxter sales are down this year, clearly affected by the sweet new Cayman and the cooling economy.

Do people settle for a Boxter? Some do, but I believe most got it because they wanted one. I spun off a part of my business in 05 and after paying off some debt still had a wad of cash left over. I invested most of it and treated myself to a shiny little used Porsche with the rest. I considered a new one, a 911TT, I considered a Ferrari, a Z06, a Saleen Mustang, I got what I wanted. I don't need to impress anyone. I got a Boxter for me.

If I had unlimited funds would I still drive a used Boxter...probably. It's not what you make it's what you keep. Bill Gates daily driver is a 10 yr old 911.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by cfos

Son, listen to what you are saying. The Greenwich dealership, which may know a little more than you about their clients than you... has 6 Boxsters in their inventory. Go and check, if you want:

http://new-country.porschedealer.com/new_cars/search.php?model=987

Compare that with their complete inventory:

http://new-country.porschedealer.com/new_cars/search.php

Congratulations. Wait, what does that prove again? That they sell a lot of their Boxsters? You can look at an inventory of a given dealer at any given time and one product might be less available than other, but that does NOT indicate what people want/desire more necessarily

Say what you want about "average" families. Personally, when I think average family, I think of people with young(er) children and a two seat car isn't exactly the best for soccer games and car-pooling. I mean, the average family has what, 2 cars? Maybe a third junker for their kid(s) that their kid may have bought, right? I think if Boxsters were hot, they'd carry more or have more on their way for delivery -- right?

Um, ok? Relevance? Obviously I was referring to the average family who wants a sports car. Didn't think I'd have to point that out nor did I think I'd have to point out that I was referring to the average family in Greenwich.

From Wikipedia: "The median income for a household in the town is $99,086, and the median income for a family is $122,719. Males have a median income of $95,085 versus $47,806 for females." I don't know that you can generalize the residents of Greenwich as being "average".

Read above. Average families of Greenwich. Are you dense? Where did I call families in Greenwich average?

Also from Wikipedia: Hmmm... maybe I'm wrong in the number of people choosing Ferrari -- It looks like they choose BMW:

"The town's 2006 Grand List (tax rolls) includes more than $1 billion in assessed values for automobiles, which raised $5.5 million in revenue for the town. Overall, there were 2,337 cars worth more than $50,000 on the list, and there were 3,769 BMWs, 3,474 Mercedes-Benzes, 931 Porsches, 94 Ferraris, 90 Bentleys, 65 Aston Martins, 40 Maseratis, 39 Rolls-Royces, four registered Maybachs (a brand that can retail for up to $385,000), and one Lamborghini. Greenwich has the only authorized Aston Martin dealership in the state.[11] "



It doesn't look like Porsche is hurting... I wonder how many states boast the numbers of this little "town" in Connecticut...?

Ok, so because it's an affluent town, that means nobody buys Boxsters all because a certain number can afford/have bought 911s, AMs, Ferraris, etc.



That doesn't make any sense and that doesn't necessarily counter my points in any way. All you are saying is that Greenwich is a relatively affluent area. I realize that. Does that mean the people of Greenwich won't have Boxsters? All 60,000 residents?


Think about it.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by Boxtaboy

Well, don't forget that the Cayman IS marketed as a notch ABOVE the Boxster series.

Also interesting is the fact that when you look at the Boxster line, more people choose the base version vs. the S model. This is in line with the idea that people buying in this price range prefer to save a buck or two if possible. However, jump to the 911 Cab, and there are about twice as many people who choose the S version over the base cab version. This then, may coincide with the idea that buyers in this price range don't care about saving the extra few bucks, and go straight for the higher status S model.

This I agree with 100%

[cfos]

"That doesn't make any sense and that doesn't necessarily counter my points in any way."

*laughs* You are really funny. I'm going to keep it simple, mmmkay? You create a thread displaying one 06 model boxster that hasn't been purchased and end the the thread by asking whether Boxster sales are slipping. One car. That's right, one. One leftover 06 in a very wealthy community. I'm not going to rehash statistics because their significance is not realized. The points I'm making with those analogies and statistics are:

(1) It is ridiculous to say that 1 car from one dealership, nationwide, is enough to judge slippage or the even question it. Sure, maybe you asking a arrogant question, but judging from your replies, you can't plead that.

(2) You do not take into account the community from which this car is leftover. Furthermore, you do not take into account that a "typical" Porsche Boxster purchaser (living in or outside of Greenwich) who buys their car new will specify exactly what options they want. If the Boxster is the ultimate sports car wouldn't you want specific features? Sure, maybe I'm wrong about that, but I ask any forum members that are reading this post to pipe in as to whether their 06 they purchased was off the lot or did they special order it with specific options. My guess is that people that did buy off the lot would buy it primarily because of the deal and I (personally) don't think that is the majority of Boxster buyers -- nor the buyers in Greenwich -- unless they are buying it for their kid. We'll see if I am wrong should the forum respond.

(3) As for being dense, I might have to agree with you on that. It is the one nugget of wisdom you've contributed. I'm probably a good deal older than you and judging from your previous posts I'm going to assume you are in the category of younger people that don't have a "fully developed brain". Having a denser brain means that I have more surface area, more cells and likely more synapses and neurons (fully mylenated) -- that's why our brain has several folds -- to increase surface area. I'd wager than my being more dense is why I can appreciate a good valid argument (e.g. what I posted above (and prior)) rather than coming to a rash conclusion about the sales of Boxsters based upon 1 left-over 06 in a county that likely sells more 911s and higher-end vehicles while you find it absurb that the local auto car wash won't take your convertible, low-to-the-ground boxster in their auto-wash. Likewise, I can appreciate good sarcasm. Can you?

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by cfos

"That doesn't make any sense and that doesn't necessarily counter my points in any way."

*laughs* You are really funny. I'm going to keep it simple, mmmkay? You create a thread displaying one 06 model boxster that hasn't been purchased and end the the thread by asking whether Boxster sales are slipping. One car. That's right, one. One leftover 06 in a very wealthy community. I'm not going to rehash statistics because their significance is not realized. The points I'm making with those analogies and statistics are:

*laughs* You are really dumb. I'm going to keep it simple, mmmkey? You just claimed that I said that 1 car from one dealership, nationwide, is enough to judge slippage or "the even question it" immediately after noting that I asked if sales were slipping.


So asking is now stating?

More baseless generalizations about what you think & believe is reality. Blah, blah. Spare me the garbage. It holds no ground here.

No shame in admitting your shortcomings.

Could've fooled me.



and judging from your previous posts I'm going to assume you are in the category of younger people that don't have a "fully developed brain".
Having a denser brain means that I have more surface area, more cells and likely more synapses and neurons (fully mylenated) -- that's why our brain has several folds -- to increase surface area. I'd wager than my being more dense is why I can appreciate a good valid argument (e.g. what I posted above (and prior)) rather than coming to a rash conclusion about the sales of Boxsters based upon 1 left-over 06 in a county that likely sells more 911s and higher-end vehicles while you find it absurb that the local auto car wash won't take your convertible, low-to-the-ground boxster in their auto-wash. Likewise, I can appreciate good sarcasm. Can you?

Sorry, sally, but being dense refers to the density of your skull, as if to say, "you are thick headed." The fact that you believed otherwise further proves my point in this instance.


Secondly, contradictions must be your best friend because you sure like to use them.

>>>>>>> You were the one who came to the "rash conclusion" about the sales & demand of Boxsters in said county, (refer to the crap about how buyers in Greenwich will not buy Boxsters because they want 911s) not me.



Wow, you're on a roll. Must be all that density

[cfos]

Tut-tut junior. Did you trip on a comma during your misreading of my post? No need to stutter (doub-doub-double-posting). There is no hurry, here.

As for my opinions and what you conclude from them -- are yours that much better -- where are your links, models or charts? What are you using to back your opinions? All I see is a lot of words and no backing or references -- just your opinion and something about me being stupid (tell us about that ecu tuned power-chip, again?) --good argument. :ah: .

So, in conclusion, I fail to see where you addressed any of the points I raised as to what may go into the mind of a Boxster purchaser nor did you list any of your own. Of course, you did answer my question related to sarcasm with your response *LOL* Anyway, should you elect to do so, I will gladly debate with you further. Right now, you remind me of Baron Davis (circa 5/13/07). Frustrated and throwin' elbows. *L* Let me know when you are ready to discuss this further, mmmmKay? Otherwise, let's see if any other forum members who purchased an 06 will mention whether or not they took a car from the lot or ordered something special. I'll start -- I ordered a custom car (not a lease) -- assuming this thread doesn't get locked...

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by cfos

Tut-tut junior. Did you trip on a comma during your misreading of my post? No need to stutter (doub-doub-double-posting). There is no hurry, here.

Despite the fact I think you lack mental capacity, I am going to chalk this ignorant comment up to, well, ignorance. (maybe a little stupidity in there too)


When I quote your statement and do not specifically add a name to the quote, it will show your statement as the REPLY-EE as well as what is being quoted. There's no double posting going on. That would be if I posted multiple times before another reply is made.



Please keep the foot in your mouth.

As for my opinions and what you conclude from them -- are yours that much better -- where are your links, models or charts? What are you using to back your opinions? All I see is a lot of words and no backing or references -- just your opinion and something about me being stupid (tell us about that ecu tuned power-chip, again?) --good argument. :ah: .

I'm sorry, kiddie, but WHERE ARE YOUR links, models and charts? The ones you have posted have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.


Oh wait, tell me again, what is the median family income in Greenwich? That will be the determining factor in how many Boxsters are sold!



Half of your weak arguments come from references to irrelevant matters. Car washes? ECU tunes? Demographics of Greenwich? Your own deluded concepts of reality? Spare me, kiddie.



Now answer this: What claims have I made that needed to be cited or proven? There is already proof that you're an idiot. It's all over this thread.

So, in conclusion, I fail to see where you addressed any of the points I raised as to what may go into the mind of a Boxster purchaser nor did you list any of your own. Of course, you did answer my question related to sarcasm with your response *LOL* Anyway, should you elect to do so, I will gladly debate with you further. Right now, you remind me of Baron Davis (circa 5/13/07). Frustrated and throwin' elbows. *L* Let me know when you are ready to discuss this further, mmmmKay? Otherwise, let's see if any other forum members who purchased an 06 will mention whether or not they took a car from the lot or ordered something special. I'll start -- I ordered a custom car (not a lease) -- assuming this thread doesn't get locked...

I countered and demolished all of your pathetic arguments. Go home now before it's too late.


If there's anything in particular you'd like me to respond to, please point it out, otherwise, be gone.

[cfos]

That you for my morning of joy. Listening to you rant is priceless. Obviously, your skills at research (your post on the ECU) and most of your ther threads, like:

Oh my, someone drove up to me and said "roast 'em!" and "why does the auto car wash guy look at me funny for wanting to wash my car at the autowash" show the depth of your pride and research skills.

The data I posted was from Wikipedia and it listed median incomes as well as numbers of cars people from Greenwich were taxed on where the value of the car exceeded $50 grand. Boxtaboy also posted sales figures, I'm assuming came from Porsche listing the sales of their models demonstrating the strong sales for 911s. I also suggested that people that had purchased 06 model boxsters also would likely select their options rather than take a car off of the lot. In fact, when I purchased my car (not leased, mind you) the salesman here said that they often use the lot Boxsters for people that test drive and sell more custom ordered Boxsters.

Now lets look at how you "countered and demolished" my statements:

In response to my first post you state:

"Uhh...it's kind of where I bought my car and also the area you're speaking of is exactly where this Porsche dealer is.


Right across the street from the Mercedes dealer and on the same side of the street as the BMW dealer (bought 2 cars from there), Audi dealer (same company), Bentley/Aston Martin/Rolls-Royce dealer.



This is precisely my point. Why hasn't it sold?"

Well, you don't state anything.

Next:

"I strongly disagree. Greenwich isn't Vatican City.



In affluent areas, cars like the Boxster will likely be sold more than anything else. Many people have a lot of $$ here, yes, but that doesn't mean they look at a $50,000 sports car and say, "I can do better."


The fact is that the average family in Greenwich would probably be looking at a Boxster because it is more affordable.


Just because many of the people have a lot of $$ doesn't mean they all can afford 911s and look over the Boxster. That's an outrageous thought!!!"

Hmm... ok, it's not Vatican City... Not sure what that analogy means... Ok, you say that in affluent areas, cars like Boxsters will be sold more than anything else. Not according to Boxtaboy's chart. Also, where are you getting this information? Personally, I don't think the "average family in Greenwich" is all that concerned with a car being affordable. I posted info. from Wikipedia stating that there were 94 taxable Ferraris in Greenwich. Do you think those 94 owners thought about the cost? Also, from that chart, how many of the 900+ Porsches do you think were Boxsters over $50k? Many people on this forum have gotten good deals on their cars that would bring their total cost under $50k. Likewise, according to Boxtaboy, it appears that many Boxster buyers are selecting the base model which generally stickers under $50k (2006 models) unless you get specific options. Enough of this response. I still don't feel you've constructed an argument.

Your page two responses:

"Congratulations. Wait, what does that prove again? That they sell a lot of their Boxsters? You can look at an inventory of a given dealer at any given time and one product might be less available than other, but that does NOT indicate what people want/desire more necessarily"

Not sure they sell many boxsters. You would think: (1) if people bought their car off the lot and it was a hot seller, there would be more Boxsters, right? Porsche typically lists their inventory and cars that are arriving. Thus, if it were a hot item, they would stock more. Who are you polling as to what people want or desire?


Ok, so because it's an affluent town, that means nobody buys Boxsters all because a certain number can afford/have bought 911s, AMs, Ferraris, etc.



"That doesn't make any sense and that doesn't necessarily counter my points in any way. All you are saying is that Greenwich is a relatively affluent area. I realize that. Does that mean the people of Greenwich won't have Boxsters? All 60,000 residents?"

No, what I am saying is that people of Greenwich often buy other cars (see previous posts). Having lived in multiple states, I know that 60,000 people is not a large population. Likewise, 94 Ferraris seems like a large number for a relatively small population. I still see no argument from you other than a rhetorical question.

Now your last two posts are nothing more than you needing more fiber in your diet. You post no argument to back up your assumptions aside from calling me stupid and attempting to degrade me by calling me "kiddie" That's a good one, sport.

Take a look at Perfect lap -- he constructed a valid argument defining what he believes the different types of sports cars are. THAT is what constitutes an argument. Something that required some thought and is put forth. Not sure I agree that Ferraris are 1990s, but that is going to be a personal opinion. If you want, show me where you have done this. If not, perhaps you might find a class in critical reasoning at your school in Albany -- assuming you go there, I'm basing this on something you posted in a previous post. I have answered your post. Can you answer this or demonstrate how your posts have "demolished" mine? Also, please note that you can take time and edit out your repeated posts -- Sometimes, I open a separate window and cut and paste between the two. All it takes is time and a bit of cut-n-pasting, feel free to keep your insults provided you build an argument. Whaddya say?