Please Help!!!!

[quikslver22]

My name is Matt Robbins and i have read a ton of engine failures on boxsters no matter what the year. I have a 2000 boxster 2.7 and the engine was replaced at 43k miles. Now im at the second 45k miles (almost at 90k miles total) and i now have an oil leak in the intermediate shaft seal. Not only that but the engine sounds like metal blocks banging around. It is at my local dealership becuase it needs a new alternator but right before it died the rough idles already started. I told them about this but they said the alternator needed replacing before they could look at anything else. Which is b.s. cause they can use a jump box to keep the battery charging if they need to run it, but whatever thats not why im here. I am assuming hte obvious and worst and the engine is more than likely needing a SECOND replacement. As i have read Porsche of America is not doing a damn thing to fix this. So i need your help.

I am asking for anyone who has ever the engine replaced, warranty or not, to please send me an email explaining about your engine replacement The cause, whether or not you paid for it, how many times, etc. I am going to make a case of this and try to force this problem as a recall. They obviously need to redesign their engine and get away from this FLAT engine design. I personally do not think the vehicle should continue to be in production if we are going to have to dish out half the price of the vehicle to have the engine repalced everytime. Porsche of America needs to cover at least 75% of this or all of it. It was built to fall apart and seems to be more of a scam! So if you could please help me out, i am going to create a list (sort of a petition) gather more information and take this to them and get the ball rolling. Might take a while to get this done but i think its time Porsche get their ass chewed by EVERYONE at the same time and not just one person. Numbers are key to winning a battle! So please help if you dont mind.

[blue2000s]

I like your idea and wish you luck on this. But understand that it's not the fact that the engine is horizontally opposed that causes these problems.

I'd encourage you to make your claims to Porsche as generic as possible, not highlighting your perceived reasons for the failures, leave that up to Porsche to decide, just highlight that the failures are excessive in general.

[quikslver22]

yeah i wasnt planning on proposing that to them, its just my opinion. Cause if you think about it, if its sucha reliable and good engine design as they say, why is a flat engine not used in the carrera gt? I know its a 10-cyc, but if they can make a flat-8 im sure a flat-10 wouldnt be much more difficult to make than a v16 back in 1930!

but i am just focusing more on the rms and intermediate shafts that are causing engine failures. I think it should be a recall ... no matter whether it is under a warranty or not.

[denverpete]

First, I understand you are upset - but really that's not going to help your situation with Porsche. Take a calm and reasonable approach and see how that goes first.

Second, you really don't know at this point whether or not you need a new engine. Until then, this is all just speculation.

Third, if you do need yet another engine, I'd think that you are exactly the type of person Porsche wants to help.

Finally, POA does in fact often help with the replacement costs of a new or used engine. This is entirely at their discretion (see my first point). Often they will pay for the engine but you are responsible for installation - or they might offer 50-75%. While this probably doesn't seem like a fair trade, keep in mind that they really have no obligation to help and you would be getting a new Porsche engine for around $3000.

Let us know how all this turns out.

[Brucelee]

I encourage you to go about this logically and have very low expectations.

As for it being the Boxer engine design, you can forget that. These guys have been pumping out flat engines since the 50s. They are not going to suddenly give you a new engine based on that score.

PS-Subaru uses the same design and their engines do not implode.

Best of luck!!!

[quikslver22]

like i said its just my opinion ... and check these out:

http://www.demeis.com/motorsport/tech/ej20rebuild.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_69979.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005112900061

Just some things on i found on the subaru engines failing. They just as much as the Porsche design. Most v or inline designed engines have yet to have such a disaster that ive seen. It is usually cause by the owner of the car and not the engine.


My engine does need replacing and they want 9.5 hours of labor and $7k for engine parts ... got the phone call this morning around 10am eastern. I am gong to fight with them, from what i have read people without a warranty are sol and POA is NOT helping them. We will see what happens, i will keep you guys posted!

And i dont mind paying $2-$3k out of my pocket, but i hardly see how i should pay anything at all. My proposal to them is, since they arent having this problem in the later models as much as the earlier models and the numbers have gone down drastically, then give me the newer model engine and ill pay the difference. Thats where im going with them, but you cant get anywhere with out facts. So far i have found about 100 engine replacements in the last year. Some waranty and some not. And to set the record straight im not raging with anger about it. Im pretty calm adn collected. Just going to speak strongly and let the records speak for themselves.

[porsche986spyder]

Originally Posted by quikslver22

It is usually cause by the owner of the car and not the engine.

What's your driving style? Do you drive it by shifting only at high rev points? Ever "red-line" during shifting? If so, I would re-think your driving style espesially after the need of a 2nd engine. Good luck.

[quikslver22]

i do not race my boxster, i change gears in the 3-5k rpm range as told it was best by Porsche. The first replacement was due to oil, they wouldnt give me any more details. Besides that though, the car was supposed to made for performance and stability, not driven to disaster.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by quikslver22

like i said its just my opinion ... and check these out:

http://www.demeis.com/motorsport/tech/ej20rebuild.html
http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_69979.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1005112900061

Just some things on i found on the subaru engines failing. They just as much as the Porsche design. Most v or inline designed engines have yet to have such a disaster that ive seen. It is usually cause by the owner of the car and not the engine.


My engine does need replacing and they want 9.5 hours of labor and $7k for engine parts ... got the phone call this morning around 10am eastern. I am gong to fight with them, from what i have read people without a warranty are sol and POA is NOT helping them. We will see what happens, i will keep you guys posted!

And i dont mind paying $2-$3k out of my pocket, but i hardly see how i should pay anything at all. My proposal to them is, since they arent having this problem in the later models as much as the earlier models and the numbers have gone down drastically, then give me the newer model engine and ill pay the difference. Thats where im going with them, but you cant get anywhere with out facts. So far i have found about 100 engine replacements in the last year. Some waranty and some not. And to set the record straight im not raging with anger about it. Im pretty calm adn collected. Just going to speak strongly and let the records speak for themselves.

Anecdote is great. My son's Sub had 190K on it when we sold it. Must be a bad engine design.

[denverpete]

Let's not put this on the driver. He came asking for help not driving advice based on speculation.

Again, to my previous points - POA is helping some people with engine replacement costs out of warranty. I agree that you shouldn't have to have 3 engines at 90K miles. However, there is the concept of fair use. You used the car and the existing engine(s) - a new engine benefits you by, now having a 0 mile engine versus a 90K mile engine. I would approach POA and present my case. If you purchased your P-car at a dealer or went to a dealer regularly for service, they can also help you make your case.

I would be curious as to what the failure was. You mentioned "engine parts" - I don't know of any intermediate shaft failures where they simply "fixed" the engine. It's always been a new or refurbished engine.

[Brucelee]

BTW- You asked for our help, yet you are insist on going down the "your flat engine design has been all wrong for over 50 yrs" rathole.

All I am saying is, IMO, if you take that tact with Porsche, you will not get a cup of coffee from them, let alone a new engine.

Do you want to be "right" or do you want to get some money back?

Oh, and the junk yards are full of ALL KINDS of engines that have failed, V8's. 6s etc.

Good luck trying to prove the flat engine is fundamentally flawed.

[Brucelee]

The IMS failure is usually lights out for the engine, like NOW!

Replacment is the usual Porsche repair strategy on this failure.

Yes, IMS is a known problem in the Boxster, as it has happened more than a few times.

Quikslver22, this is going to take a long time to resolve. What do you plan to do with your car in the interim?

Your car is 7 years-old (young!). Has +90,000 miles. You have blown 2 engines. What is your driving style? How about regular maintainance?

Good luck...keep us posted.

Sorry about your dilemma.

[Sammy]

As Brucelee eluded to, the IMS failure is one loud bang and then its done. If the IMS goes the engine can't run. RMS and IMS seal leaks are not going to cause a failure unless the large amount of oil on the ground was ignored. Please keep us updated as to the root cause of this failure.

My suggestion is to leave the possible bigger issue alone (Porsche already knows how many engines has been replaced) and focus on trying to get help to replace your engine. Keep calling Porsche and try to be patient as they will not magically say "yes, we'll cover the costs of your replacement engine" on the first phone call. My guess is you'll have to call POA and ultimately talk to one of their regional service managers. It's not an easy task but patience and politeness will probably get you further (of course a few appropriate placed stern comments will be needed to show some frustration). The regional service manager is going to suspect mistreatment of the engine and its up to you to convince him/her otherwise. If you make him/her upset than you aren't going to get anywhere.

Things that will help are if it was a dealer purchased car, proof of maintenance history, if you are the first owner, etc.

I wish you the best of luck and please keep us updated on the results!

[quikslver22]

ok seriously im done with the engine design, i said it was an opinion!!!!!!! So leave it at that!

I have been gathering my case together by the way. I called the tech where the car was serviced and the first engine was replaced and he is getting me all the information that he can find on it. The engine was replaced under warranty and he said it looks like it was just a reman motor and the chances of it failing again would be pretty high. So he is helping me with the service paperwork and what i will need to follow up with "Good Will" from Porsche. So its not ALWAYS starting out with 0 miles as he just told me. If an engine does get replaced then i would double check on that. He will be giving me a call back when he has more and i will keep you guys informed. I know this will take awhile to get taken care of, and im willing to fight for it. I absolutely love the car and i hate not being able to drive it. The car is babied, washed once a week sometimes every other week depends on the month, dosent get raced, no hard acceleration, just average daily driving as if i was 80 years old and could barley press the pedal!!!

[denverpete]

quikslver22: As to the posts on your opinions and driving style just keep this in mind, "We don't know you". You just signed onto this board so you probably don't know the dynamics and we, in turn, don't know anything about you. Logging onto a Porsche board and complaining about engine design (opinion) is going to get responses (other opinions) in return.

I mentioned that it's not always a new engine. A remanufactured engine should have no more reason to fail than a new one provided they actually replaced the engine and didn't do a rebuild.

Seriously - good luck with this. Please do let us know what happens.

[aren040]

I don't know about the Porsche engine in general but I can attest that the Flat Engine/Boxer design is not the issue. I come from the Subaru world and I can tell you that the design is not a problem. There are thousands of people with flat Subaru engines without problems. Check out my old stomping ground (which I still visit daily) www.nasioc.com. They have 140,000+ members right now. You wont hear too much about engines dieing.

I am sorry for your loss and since this has been a persistent problem with this engine I agree that Porsche should do something. So good luck to you and your cause.

[quikslver22]

ok just to clarify where i was coming from with the "engine design" I wasnt saying that the Boxer Designed engines were faulty. I was saying that the PORSCHE Designed Boxer motor was faulty. There seems to be a consistency in it being replaced in the earlier versions more than the newer ones. Now from what i do know the RMS finally has a complete fix. Talked to the service tech here in my dealership and he said they have finally got a seal that hasnt leaked out oil after being being replaced. Which is good news because its not fun to throw away 1k every year for a new rms seal replacement. Also the new engine in the 05-06 has been redesigned a little bit and should fix the rest of the problems. Hince the wider rear body, but we will find out as the years go on.

[aren040]

That's good to know. So essentially my MY07 Boxster should have no RMS issues at all. Well, that is IF (and that's a big if) the dealer service guy you talked to is correct.

Nothing against you at all there buddy but I am very sceptical of anything coming out of a dealers or their service peoples mouths. I had many bad experiences that I don't want to get into.

[Brucelee]

Just so you know, in the Porsche world, a Porsche "remanufactured" engine is in fact, new. They DO reuse some externals from other engines such as FI, wiring and the like.

However, the block, heads etc. are all factory new.

I don't think the remanufactured angle is going to gain you any leverage.