Sway Bar Upgrade

[bcrdukes]

Hi folks,

I'm looking to upgrade from my stock S sway bars to something else. The end goal is to have a solid street car with occasional track day (maybe once or twice a year.) I do not drive the vehicle much, typically less than 5000KM / 3100 miles a year. I'd like to reduce the body roll on sweeping highway/freeway entries/exits.

I've read a number of old threads on the forum but looking to get some suggestions on what is next. The general consensus is the H&R sway bars are too heavy and stiff (whatever that means ) and the M030 sway bar is not much of an improvement from the S factory bar.

Which begs the question - would the next jump up be the Euro 996 GT3 front sway bars or Tarret bars? If yes, does anyone have any experience with them? And are aftermarket endlinks required? Or move up to an M030 front sway? Open to rear sway bar suggestions as well. Thanks in advance!

Regards,

bcrdukes

[BrantyB]

Here is a chart of the OEM bar stiffnesses for your use. Going from an S to M030 may not be enough of an upgrade for you - from a base it makes a bigger difference. But at least you have the information to make a decision.

[bcrdukes]

Thanks for that, BrantyB!

Looks like the Rear sway bar won't make TOO too much of a difference (it does, but for my application probably not necessary) so a front bar will do for now.

Anybody running the Elephant Racing end links? They seem to have a rubber boot pre-installed already as opposed the Tarret ones.

[edc]

I would do whatever spring/damper/geo changes you were planning on first then evaluate from there. For a predominantly road based car I don't think the Arbs or sway bars are the big game changer.

[bcrdukes]

I'm running H&R sport springs with the Koni Special Active shocks and have been for well over a year. I was running a pretty aggressive track-focused alignment but changed it back to near-factory specs because COVID cancelled all PCA DEs here.

[986 Boxster]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I'm running H&R sport springs with the Koni Special Active shocks and have been for well over a year. I was running a pretty aggressive track-focused alignment but changed it back to near-factory specs because COVID cancelled all PCA DEs here.

Did you experience less body roll with the track focused alignment?
I got pretty much the same suspension set up that you have and I was looking to add an H&R rear sway bar, but after I had a track focused alignment done, after installing the suspension, most of the body roll, if not all is gone now.
ike84 is right, the factory staggered set up of 205 front & 255 rear on these cars suck, I was experiencing a lot of understeer before I changed to 225`s at the front also. I mentioned that before on a thread on here and I am surprised that none of the track gurus pointed to the width of the front tires as the cause of the understeer.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by 986 Boxster

Did you experience less body roll with the track focused alignment?
I got pretty much the same suspension set up that you have and I was looking to add an H&R rear sway bar, but after I had a track focused alignment done, after installing the suspension, most of the body roll, if not all is gone now.
ike84 is right, the factory staggered set up of 205 front & 255 rear on these cars suck, I was experiencing a lot of understeer before I changed to 225`s at the front also. I mentioned that before on a thread on here and I am surprised that none of the track gurus pointed to the width of the front tires as the cause of the understeer.

The track focused alignment was very aggressive, which reduced body roll a bit but it just wasn't practical for driving on the street. My personal preference is to keep a mild alignment and to let a sway bar provide assistance or compliment the overall suspension capabilities. I am debating if I want a rear sway bar, but will have to wait. I ended up buying a Tarrett GT3-style front sway bar and will try that first and decide if I want a rear later on.

I don't think I would recommend my previous alignment to anyone. There were a few scary moments on the street, even at traffic speed.

[986 Boxster]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

The track focused alignment was very aggressive, which reduced body roll a bit but it just wasn't practical for driving on the street. My personal preference is to keep a mild alignment and to let a sway bar provide assistance or compliment the overall suspension capabilities. I am debating if I want a rear sway bar, but will have to wait. I ended up buying a Tarrett GT3-style front sway bar and will try that first and decide if I want a rear later on.

I don't think I would recommend my previous alignment to anyone. There were a few scary moments on the street, even at traffic speed.

I was in the same situation as you, but after my alignment I decided not to add the H&R sway bars. I`m probably gonna go thru tires a lot quicker, but at least the car handles great

[bcrdukes]

I'm glad you like the Koni Special Active setup! I'm slowly hoping to convert more people over to it. Such an under appreciated set of shocks, which is the #1 seller for the 993 and 964 guys, but everybody here seems to praise the temple of Bilstein.

[ike84]

Hey dukes, for ****************s and giggles, try replacing the bushings poly bushings (I used energy suspension).

I have a 2.7 base and new bushings made a big difference. Between that and my adjustable coilovers dialed in it drives completely different from the car I originally bought.

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[Van914]

I have Tarret front and rear anti sway bars and I like them. I also have H&R springs and Bilstein B6 struts

[Racer Boy]

If you are looking for a stiffer front sway bar, I have a S-model Sport Group M030 bar (24 mm) with the stock bushings that I'll sell. The part number is 986-343-701-21, and according to Pelican, the new Porsche price is $461.25. I'll let it go for $100 plus shipping from Seattle.

PM if you are interested.

[ike84]

I just read though the chart branty posted. Thanks for posting!

Question for the group (I'm sure this will sound dumb). If the gt3 bar is 2x as stiff - I would imagine this is gonna add a ton of understeer. One if the best things I feel like I've done for improving handling was going to 225s up front to reduce understeer.

So, for those of you who have run it, what's the general impression? Obviously it will change stability but is it a positive change? Good at all speeds or only good at autox speeds with high speed understeer being an issue? Only valuable if also switching to square tire setup?



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[bcrdukes]

haha ike84 - I'm not sure I want to go to polyurethane bushings (or do I????) I had them on my old Toyota AW11 supercharged MR2 and it was awful but that was a very different car in comparison to a Boxster. I've gone to several shops in town and all of them insist I don't need to change mine. Not sure if they are jerking me around or not.

I'm running 225 tires up front but its how I bought the car so I'm afraid I am of no help. Sorry! By the way, which coilovers are you running?

@Racer Boy - Thanks for the kind offer but I think the difference coming from a 3.2L S sway bar to the "S" M030 would be marginal. Hopefully someone else will pick it up from you.

[ike84]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

haha ike84 - I'm not sure I want to go to polyurethane bushings (or do I????) I had them on my old Toyota AW11 supercharged MR2 and it was awful but that was a very different car in comparison to a Boxster. I've gone to several shops in town and all of them insist I don't need to change mine. Not sure if they are jerking me around or not.

I'm running 225 tires up front but its how I bought the car so I'm afraid I am of no help. Sorry! By the way, which coilovers are you running?

@Racer Boy - Thanks for the kind offer but I think the difference coming from a 3.2L S sway bar to the "S" M030 would be marginal. Hopefully someone else will pick it up from you.

My car came on stock Conti 205 fronts and lemme tell ya, factory understeer is a very real thing. I get why they did it (oversteer more dangerous in inexperienced hands) but damn.

I installed my coilovers (godspeed) last fall and spent a few months dialing them in before I tore her apart this winter. Really quite harsh at higher settings, but I found a nice balance of comfort and performance around 30/50%. This is my only experience in the world of aftermarket racing suspensions but I really like them.

I bought the energy bushings on a whim after reading a post on another forum about how they are high quality, universal fit, and I had decided a while ago that everything rubber on my suspension needed to go. I finally got around to installing the bushings (front and rear) and I really do feel like they made a difference. No but dyno stuff, just felt more firm going into hard corners. I made the mistake of not greasing them before install so it squeaked like a ******************** going over speed bumps lol. Once I got that rectified though I have no complaints.

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[Van914]

I have 235 fronts on my 2000 S

[ike84]

Originally Posted by Van914

I have 235 fronts on my 2000 S

What size wheel do you have? If you have the 18x7.5 that's totally normal.

I saw a video of someone stuff a 245 on a 7" rim. The sidewall flex was scary.

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[bcrdukes]

@ Van914 - Is your car a daily driver by chance? Which endlinks are you using?

[Van914]

Ike
18x7 1/2

Bcrdukes,
Tarret links

[1thenaton1]

Eibach makes a front and rear kit (rear is adjustable) for significantly less than the Tarret pieces. I went with those and the Tarret drop links. I found on the "stiff" setting the car was twitchy and too easy to spin and almost impossible to catch on time. On the soft setting with 255 square the setup felt solid on track.