It's BS! :( - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

PaulE · 05-04-2021, 03:30 PM

Having tgone through this due to a failed LN Single Row Pro IMSB 2 years ago and deciding to have my engine rebuilt by my local shop, I feel your pain. I decided to have my engine case sent to LN and get my 3.2 increased to 3.6 with LN Nickies. It took 6 months for the LN Nickies to be completed, including shipping both ways. The intial time estimate was 8 weeks. I had some email correspondence with Charles Navarro and spoke with his father a couple of times, as he works there to and answers the phone. Both were always very nice and helpful. The biggest reason for this is the backlog at the platers. There are only a few platers that can do the job to LN's standards and they are busy year round with engines for cars, motorcycles and snowmobiles, probably boats too! So if you're contemplating an increase in displacement, keep that in mind. Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

husker boxster · 05-05-2021, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulE

I decided to have my engine case sent to LN and get my 3.2 increased to 3.6 with LN Nickies. It took 6 months for the LN Nickies to be completed, including shipping both ways. The intial time estimate was 8 weeks.

My rebuild will be going from 3.4 to 3.8L. Interesting that I was told the same time est. However, my car will be staying at the indy shop. I wanted to be sure they kept it inside now that storm season is approaching. They said they had a lift dedicated to long term jobs. He did say the job depended on how long it took to have the new cyl pressed in (or however they do that). They can do the barking to the builder since they have lost income with the bay being taken up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulE

The biggest reason for this is the backlog at the platers. There are only a few platers that can do the job to LN's standards and they are busy year round with engines for cars, motorcycles and snowmobiles, probably boats too!

This is why Raby is developing a new cyl lining process. It will be more environmentally friendly than Nikasil, just as strong, and he won't have to depend on a busy plater.

Gilles · 05-05-2021, 12:10 PM

Husker, if you decided go with the 3.8 cylinders I would suggest avoiding the steel cylinder inserts and go with the aluminum sleeves for a long term engine health..

husker boxster · 05-05-2021, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles

Husker, if you decided go with the 3.8 cylinders I would suggest avoiding the steel cylinder inserts and go with the aluminum sleeves for a long term engine health..

Absolutely. That's why I don't want to go with the FL rebuilder. EvoSpec is using alum cyl with Nikasil coating. Almost eliminates the chance of bore scoring happening again.

ike84 · 05-05-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles

Husker, if you decided go with the 3.8 cylinders I would suggest avoiding the steel cylinder inserts and go with the aluminum sleeves for a long term engine health..

maybe this is a stupid question, but what's wrong with iron sleeves? Strong, durable, easily sourced, and not dependent on any of this stuff? Tuners doing conversions from na to fi have been doing this for a long time with good results. Is there something about this engine that doesn't play well with iron sleeves though?

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husker boxster · 05-05-2021, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ike84

maybe this is a stupid question, but what's wrong with iron sleeves? Strong, durable, easily sourced, and not dependent on any of this stuff? Tuners doing conversions from na to fi have been doing this for a long time with good results. Is there something about this engine that doesn't play well with iron sleeves though?

Iron dissipates heat at a different / slower rate than alum, so your engine runs hotter.

Gilles · 05-06-2021, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husker boxster

Iron dissipates heat at a different / slower rate than alum, so your engine runs hotter.

Yes indeed, and eventually you could end having issues with the head gasket as well.. Vision Motorsports use steel liners on their race engines with good results, but these engines usually get disassembled and refresh after the race season or every other season and that seems impractical (and expensive..) for a street car.

ike84 · 05-06-2021, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles

Yes indeed, and eventually you could end having issues with the head gasket as well.. Vision Motorsports use steel liners on their race engines with good results, but these engines usually get disassembled and refresh after the race season or every other season and that seems impractical (and expensive..) for a street car.

What types of issues with the head gasket have those guys had?

I have zero real world experience with sleeving, so I only know what I can access online. But a quick trip to the fountain of knowledge shows at least one builder (vac motorsports) who routinely sleeve bmw alusil engine with flanged ductile iron sleeves with success in builds much more demanding than an NA m96.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock raby or ln from an experience standpoint, but their prices are absurd and it seems like those are the only 2 guys who ever come up in engine discussions without any talk of the rest of the vast world of engine builders.

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PaulE · 05-05-2021, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husker boxster

My rebuild will be going from 3.4 to 3.8L. Interesting that I was told the same time est. However, my car will be staying at the indy shop. I wanted to be sure they kept it inside now that storm season is approaching. They said they had a lift dedicated to long term jobs. He did say the job depended on how long it took to have the new cyl pressed in (or however they do that). They can do the barking to the builder since they have lost income with the bay being taken up.

This is why Raby is developing a new cyl lining process. It will be more environmentally friendly than Nikasil, just as strong, and he won't have to depend on a busy plater.

My car stayed inside at my Indy shop while the engine was apart too, they had no sway with getting the engine case back any sooner, LN is at the mercy of the plater. I suspect Jake Raby is the only shop that has any pull with LN on getting Nickies done, unless Jake actually gets them done on his own and has his own plater to push. Raby's new cylinder lining process looks interesting, do you think it will be commercially available in your time frame. I saw a Total Seal Piston Rings/Lake Speed Jr video about that on Facebook, it seems like it is still a couple of years away from being commercial.

Once you get your engine back in your car, you will love it! I hope you can swing a few Wheeler/Dealer cars through while you're waiting to help pay for it!

husker boxster · 05-20-2021, 06:13 AM

Sydney is at the doctor's office and will be starting her 2 mo (hopefully) heart surgery. Now that I'm past the sticker shock, I'm looking forward to the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulE

Raby's new cylinder lining process looks interesting, do you think it will be commercially available in your time frame. I saw a Total Seal Piston Rings/Lake Speed Jr video about that on Facebook, it seems like it is still a couple of years away from being commercial.

Sorry Paul, I didn't answer your question from earlier. I think it will be a couple of yrs before Jake's new process is commercially viable. My initial thought on going with the 2500 mi engine was in conjunction w/ Jake's new system. I'd put the 2500 mi engine in, then wait 2 yrs and have my original rebuilt with the new liners. Then I'd be able to keep my original engine (vs exchanging it for one already rebuilt). And when my engine was done, I could pull the 2500 mi engine and sell it. This process would have gotten me back on the road in short order, rather than getting in line with Raby or L&N and waiting 18 mo. Since EvoSpec can get me turned around in 2 mo (hopefully), I can live with that as down time, esp since I have Punkin to drive in the summer mo.

PaulE · 05-20-2021, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husker boxster

Sydney is at the doctor's office and will be starting her 2 mo (hopefully) heart surgery. Now that I'm past the sticker shock, I'm looking forward to the results.

Sorry Paul, I didn't answer your question from earlier. I think it will be a couple of yrs before Jake's new process is commercially viable. My initial thought on going with the 2500 mi engine was in conjunction w/ Jake's new system. I'd put the 2500 mi engine in, then wait 2 yrs and have my original rebuilt with the new liners. Then I'd be able to keep my original engine (vs exchanging it for one already rebuilt). And when my engine was done, I could pull the 2500 mi engine and sell it. This process would have gotten me back on the road in short order, rather than getting in line with Raby or L&N and waiting 18 mo. Since EvoSpec can get me turned around in 2 mo (hopefully), I can live with that as down time, esp since I have Punkin to drive in the summer mo.

It will be worth the wait, with the 3.8 and some goodies like a tune and headers your HP should be in Cayman R or GT4 zip code! Here's to hoping LN's platers can move it through asap!

husker boxster · 06-01-2021, 01:05 PM

SLM was down a mechanic last wk, so work has now begun on engine removal. They hope to ship tomorrow. Thu I go in to look at peripherals like clutch, etc to see what we want to replace.

Gilles · 06-01-2021, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husker boxster

SLM was down a mechanic last wk, so work has now begun on engine removal. They hope to ship tomorrow. Thu I go in to look at peripherals like clutch, etc to see what we want to replace.

Husker, hopefully you can save a little extra money for an OS Giken LSD, you are going to love it.. :-)